steralizing tren

[anaholic]

I was recently told that when steralizing trenabolone it was destroyed if heated to 225 degrees, does anybody know if this is true, and if so how does one go about steralizing IP bulk tren, and would there be a difference between tren H, and tren A

[mickeymbbc]

Who Told You That, I Have Never Heard Of That Before. No!! It Will Not Destroy It.



-mick

[anaholic]

just the local gym guru, so 225 degrees for 20 minutes aplies to all IP bulk oils

[sTaTic]

ive used ip bulk and all i did was filter through a whatman filter. all good here ;)

[anaholic]

static
did your ass get really sore? How big of shots were you doing ?

[mickeymbbc]

ive used ip bulk and all i did was filter through a whatman filter. all good here ;)

THERE IS ANOTHER WAY:) IMO THERE IS NO NEED TO ALWAYS PUT IP IN THE OVEN.


-MICK

[sTaTic]

not anything different then when using other gear. I was doing 2 cc of eq twice a week. quad shots

[anaholic]

mick
whats the other way?

[mickeymbbc]

The other way of what?

1. in the oven
2. through a filter

I am not understanding what you are asking.



-mick

[anaholic]

you wrote
THERE IS ANOTHER WAY :) IMO THERE IS NO NEED TO ALWAYS PUT IP IN THE OVEN
also,this might be a stupid question but whats IMO mean?

[sTaTic]

IMO= in my opinion

he just meant that what i wrote was another way of doing it ;)

[mickeymbbc]

Yep:)




-mick

[sikdogg]

If you use a .22 Whatman filter, then you don't have to bake in an oven...

[sTaTic]

I used "Whatman 25 MM, PVDF Membrane, .45u pore size, sterile syringe filter used to filter oil based liquids". I am completely fine. you'll be all good bro. Just dont contaminate anything while you do this. It takes time so dont rush it.

[opusx]

I used "Whatman 25 MM, PVDF Membrane, .45u pore size, sterile syringe filter used to filter oil based liquids". I am completely fine. you'll be all good bro. Just dont contaminate anything while you do this. It takes time so dont rush it.

can I see the entire picture of the chick in your Avatar and signature? I really kind of like her :o

[sTaTic]

you sure can... gots alot more if ya need em ;)

dont have the avatar one though sorry

[mickeymbbc]

Thats nice:)



-mick

[bdog]

Damn she's fine.. put up some more!

[sikdogg]

I used "Whatman 25 MM, PVDF Membrane, .45u pore size, sterile syringe filter used to filter oil based liquids". I am completely fine. you'll be all good bro. Just dont contaminate anything while you do this. It takes time so dont rush it.
A .45u filter isn't enough to filter out viral spores... this is why people still bake when using a .45u filter. The problem is that baking in an oven is useless for sterilization. Here's a good read about sterilization...

Here's a good read about baking your gear.

Why I don't autoclave/bake my gear. - By SV-1

I've seen a lot of info on the board lately about how using an autoclave or pressure cooker will sterilize oil based AAS, well after a good bit of research everything I've been able to find states the exact opposite.


To start here is a quote by Justin, a moderator at UK Muscle:
Quote:
Clearing up some misconceptions

Heat sterilisation of oil will not be successful by using 250F.
250F is the heat used by a certain class of autoclave. The autoclave uses pressure also to achieve wet sterilisation, this method will work for aqueous solutions but will NOT sterilise oil. If heat is the chosen method to sterilise oil, then you must sterilise by dry heat methods, i.e. 150-170C (302 - 338F) for 1-4 hrs, (type and volume depending) which can be detrimental to certain hormone preparations.
Divert your attentions to using clean practises, filtering with a 0.22um membrane filter and incorporating a Bacteriostatic agent (BA).



I found the following to support this quote.

From the FLINDERS UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA - FACULTY OF SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING
SCHOOL OF BIOLOGICAL SCIENCES USE AND TRAINING FOR AUTOCLAVES
"Ensure that the material is autoclavable – Oils, waxes, some plastics, flammable materials and samples
containing solvents or substances that may emit toxic fumes should not be autoclaved"

Full document here:
http://www.scieng.flinders.edu.au/b...s/Autoclave.pdf


In the article Sterilization and Disinfection it says:

"Dry heat is used for the sterilization of anhydrous oils, greases, powders, etc., that cannot be easily permeated by steam. Dry heat is less efficient than wet-heat sterilization and requires longer times or higher temperatures; specific time and temperature must be determined for each type of material being sterilized.

Sterilization can usually be accomplished at 160-170C (320-338F) for periods of 2-4 hours. Higher temperatures and shorter times may be used for heat resistant materials. The heat transfer properties and arrangement of articles in the load are critical to insuring effective sterilization."

and

Steam Sterilization Disadvantages
"Unsuitable method for sterilization of anhydrous oils, greases and powders."

Full document:
http://www2.ncsu.edu/ncsu/ehs/www99...BioSterDis.html


The World of Autoclaves article gives a partial explanation why:
The time required to kill a known population of microorganisms in a specific suspension at a particular temperature is referred to as thermal death time (TDT). However, fats and oils slow heat penetration and increase TDT.

Full article:
http://esf.uvm.edu/uvmsafety/labsaf...autoclaves.html


Dry Heat Sterilization:
-Sterilization in the absence of water.
-Oven heated at 160 to 170 ° C for 2 to 3 hours.

Full article:
http://www.uta.edu/biology/badon/cl...Lecture%206.pdf


DRY HEAT STERILIZATION:
Equipment: Oven
Method: Dry heat sterilization is carried out at 160 deg C. to 170 deg C. for 2 to 4 hrs.
Application: Glassware, Fixed oils, Thermostable powders

STEAM STERILIZATION:
Equipment: Autoclave
Disadvantages: 1. Cannot use for oily preparation (oil base ointment)

http://webusers.xula.edu/tmandal/ph...ics/STERILZ.PPT


"Fats and oils have a great protective effect on microorganisms and their spores by
interfering with the penetration of wet heat. As has been noted, wet heat at a given temperature is more lethal
than dry heat, because moisture is an effective conductor of heat and penetrates into microbial cells and spores.
If microorganisms are trapped within fat globules, then moisture can less readily penetrate into the cells and
heating becomes more like dry heat."

http://www.vhall.nl/International/C...reservation.pdf


Biosafety Program - STERILIZATION

"The advantage of wet heat is a better heat transfer to and into the cell resulting in overall shorter exposure time and lower temperature. Steam sterilization uses pressurized steam at 121-132° C (250-270° F) for 30 or 40 minutes. This type of heat kills all microbial cells including spores, which are normally heat resistant. In order to accomplish the same effect with dry heat in an oven, the temperature needs to be increased to 160-170° C (320-338° F) for periods of 2 to 4 hours."

Full article here:
http://www.lbl.gov/ehs/biosafety/Bi...ilization.shtml


Standard Conditions for Sterilization

Dry Heat Sterilization

* 170° C (340° F)
* 1 hour (total cycle time—placing instruments in oven, heating to 170° C, timing for 1 hour, and then cooling—is from 2–2½ hours)

OR

* 160° C (320° F)
* 2 hours (total cycle time is from 3–3½ hours)
* Ideal for instruments with cutting edges and other sharps (e.g., scissors, scalpel blades, needles)

Exposure time begins only after the oven has reached the specified temperature.

Full article here:
http://www.reproline.jhu.edu/englis...ulti/pg/ip2.htm


Finally here is an advertisement for an ALL AMERICAN Electric Autoclave Model 25X, a $750 Sterilizer/Autoclave. Which says very clearly in the last line, "Not to be used to sterilize oils and powders."

So if you're counting on autoclaving/pressure cooking or baking (at any temp/time that wont fry your gear) to give you a sterile oil based product, think again.

[anaholic]

the filters ive got filter .2 microns that should get the bacterial spores shouldnt it?

[sTaTic]

A .45u filter isn't enough to filter out viral spores... this is why people still bake when using a .45u filter. The problem is that baking in an oven is useless for sterilization. Here's a good read about sterilization...




if that is true, which i dont think it is but i could be wrong... then all it means is that alins stuff is clean and all you really need to do is transfer it to your own steril vials.



:D im all good here... no problems thanks alin

[sikdogg]

the filters ive got filter .2 microns that should get the bacterial spores shouldnt it?
Yup... if you filter with a .2 micron filter you technically don't need to bake.

[sikdogg]

if that is true, which i dont think it is but i could be wrong... then all it means is that alins stuff is clean and all you really need to do is transfer it to your own steril vials.



:D im all good here... no problems thanks alin
I don't expect people that don't me to take what i say at face value... this is why i try to include studies or other evidence to support my claims. Pharmaceutical companies use an autoclave to sterilize their injectables, according to the studies that i re-posted, baking in an oven is a waste and only serves to reduce the potency of your gear if not properly done.

[sTaTic]

I understand but the way I understood it was that the .45 was for oil and the .2 was for water based. I wasn't pokin a stick at ya :)

[mickeymbbc]

You are correct static:




-mick

[mickeymbbc]

I don't expect people that don't me to take what i say at face value... this is why i try to include studies or other evidence to support my claims. Pharmaceutical companies use an autoclave to sterilize their injectables, according to the studies that i re-posted, baking in an oven is a waste and only serves to reduce the potency of your gear if not properly done.


You also have valid points sikdogg, Pharmaceutical company's use Autoclave to sterilize injectables. In addition, if gear is not baked properly, you can reduce the potency of your gear.( But I haven't see or heard of anybody doing that yet) YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE AWE-FULL DUMB, IF YOU DIDN'T STUDY OR READ BEFORE TRYING IT FOR THE FIRST TIME.


-MICK

[anaholic]

would a 225 degree bake kill bacteria but not thier spores?
i have access to an autoclave at work, but by what iam reading it would ruin my gear and not steralize the oil ?
it seems like an outfit such as IP would have sanitary measures in place to protect the consumer woulndnt they?

[mickeymbbc]

would a 225 degree bake kill bacteria but not thier spores?
i have access to an autoclave at work, but by what iam reading it would ruin my gear and not steralize the oil ?
it seems like an outfit such as IP would have sanitary measures in place to protect the consumer woulndnt they?


I beleive so brutha, 200-255 degree would be fine.




-mick

[sikdogg]

Yes a .2u filter was designed for aqueous solution and not oils but they do wor although very slowly. if you go back and read thru the liniks i posted about autoclaves, they aren't effective for sterilizing oils and powders. Dry heat (baking) is also ineffective... If that is the case then our only viable alternative for sterilization is to use a finer filter that is sufficient in removing the smallest bacterias and adding an anti-bacterial like BA...

[Nietzsche]

I don't expect people that don't (know) me to take what i say at face value... this is why i try to include studies or other evidence to support my claims. Pharmaceutical companies use an autoclave to sterilize their injectables, according to the studies that i re-posted, baking in an oven is a waste and only serves to reduce the potency of your gear if not properly done.
In regards to the article you 're-posted'. Did you make it up? Out of the 8 links, that link to the full article quoted, only 3 of them lead anywhere. And those 3 links only lead to 'page not found' errors on other pages.

No disrespect intended.

[sTaTic]

More for your viewing pleasure.... :D

[sTaTic]

lets see.... how about this one?

[sTaTic]

And I know we all like this pose... ;)

[iridiumblue]

[QUOTE=anaholic]you wrote
THERE IS ANOTHER WAY :) IMO THERE IS NO NEED TO ALWAYS PUT IP IN THE OVEN
also,this might be a stupid question but whats IMO mean?[/QUOTe


In My opinion (IMO)

[sikdogg]

I'll try to dig up the links and re-post them for you...

[opusx]

And I know we all like this pose... ;)


great thread :)

[anaholic]

static
is that your women?

[sTaTic]

Naw man... this is my woman... no lie

[bdog]

Bro, the one where she is bent over awwhh... Anyways, Bro your girl looks like she is smokin !!

[sTaTic]

Bro, the one where she is bent over awwhh... Anyways, Bro your girl looks like she is smokin !!


I know what ya mean and thanks bro.. she is a looker. No complaints here. been married for a year and a half. We had a baby 9 months ago and she looks even better now. She trains also and i'm trying to get her to compete. all natural but shes built like she was on something. Ill try to get her to take a pic of her guns. :D

[Steel_Test]

some of you guys on this board are iddiots. You act like a bunch of teenagers who heard the most effective way to inject gear is inbetween the toes, or better yet in the head of your di#$