Gear?

[bdog]

thinking of running BD test enth. 250wk for 8-10wk, will be my first inj. tried some dbol tabs last year...thought about running the test with EQ or Decca.what you think.

[Msu16366]

250 a week is not enough,
You need to run at least 500 mg a week.

[jimmy]

for a first cycle i would advise

weeks 1-9
250mg test/en every 5 days

weeks 1-3/4
30mg dbol ED

week 10
30mg dbol ED

week 11
40mg dbol ED

week 12
50mg dbol ED

weeks 1-12
10-20mg nolv ED

weeks 13-15
clomid PCT

[big49ersfan]

my first cycle was

12 weeks (i think ) of test e @ 500mg ew
10 weeks of deca (i def stopped this 2 weeks before the test so may have been 9 if test was 11 etc) @400mg ew (both were split equally on mon/fri shots)
weeks 1-4 d-bols@ 35mg ed (at this level no back pump etc was a good amount)

then weeks 11-15 winny @ 50mg ed
hcg 500 i.u. eod from week 12-15 tkaing 10mg of nolva with it for gyno

pct

clo/nolva
day1- 200/60
day2-14 100/40
day15-28 50/20
then day 28-32 nolva 20mg ed

i used nolva may be fo for a total of 3 weeks during cycle when i had an itchy nipple but nothing seriosu was probably over kill

i put on 2 stone kept a lot of it the winny helpd dry you out and acts as the bridge i prefered this to the dbols and you then loose then in pct albeit water weight.

i would advice this if yo have the money

if not

do 500mg test e ew with a kickstart of bdols or prop and end with prop or winny. Can loose the prop or winny at the end if you cant afford it. if you want dryer gains do 1mg eod of a'dex.

[diamondcutcows]

for a first cycle i would advise

weeks 1-9
250mg test/en every 5 days

weeks 1-3/4
30mg dbol ED

week 10
30mg dbol ED

week 11
40mg dbol ED

week 12
50mg dbol ED

weeks 1-12
10-20mg nolv ED

weeks 13-15
clomid PCT

I like this train of thought. Use something while waiting for PCT. This way you know when AAS are out of your system. Less guessing this way. I don't know about the spike in Dbol dosing towards the end.

Whats that about?

I usually say Test E @ 500mg 1-10 w/ Dbol for the first 4-6 and standard Clomid or Nolva PCT...No Stacking though

[jimmy]

I don't know about the spike in Dbol dosing towards the end.

Whats that about?



well if your shooting enth E5D then it will taper out E5D as well

so i like to increase the taper to make up for this

5 day increases of dbol would be an overcomplication so I use weekly adjustements instead

[shito-ryo]

If you have NOT started yet get some blood work done. Then retest again about 2-3 weeks after pct to assure your pct returned worked.

As far as the cycle too many forget sometimes less is more. 4-500 every 5 days should work well...good luck mate

[Matti]

I started my first cycle at age 23. I would have sooner but partners at gym restrained me until they thought I was ready and educated enough. I trained since age 12 with weights and the last 5 years before my cycle was solid hardcore training. Here is what my first cycle looked like:

Weeks 1-2
Sustanon @ 500mg week
Testosterone Suspension @ 500mg a week
Trenbolone @ 80mg ED
Dianabol @ 25mg ED
Humalog @10 iu in morning and 10 iu post workout

Weeks 3-6
Sustanon @ 1000mg week
Trenbolone @ 80mg EOD
Dianabol @ 25mg ED
Humalog @5 iu in morning and 5 iu post workout

Weeks 7-10
Testosterone Propionate @ 500mg a week
Tenbolone @ 80mg EOD

Weeks 11-12
Testosterone Suspension @ 500mg a week
HCG 1000iu ED
Arimidex .5mg ED

Weeks 13-14
Arimidex 1mg ED
Clomid 100mg ED

Weeks 15-16
Clomid 50mg ED

I had arimidex on hand to use during the cycle but I had no flair ups of potential gyno and my blood pressure was only raised a little ( i did pretty intense cardio 3x a week to keep in check). I was a big believer in preventing the rise in estrogen and getting my balls back to running on all cylinders, ie the heavier arimidex use and HCG and clomid therapy near end and after cycle.

I ate a solid 5300 calories a day ( 3000 from food, 2300 from shakes bars and my cell-tech after slin usage)

This cycle was devised by a trainer who has helped many pros in there mass gaining attempts. He advocated simple drugs like Test, Tren, Insulin and some Dbol. He liked AS Virgins as he called them to use larger than normal amounts as receptor sites are fresh They are tried and true and really lay down mass fast. He was obviuously right as i gained 32 lbs of mass and kept 24 lbs of it for 6 months as I went clean and then started next mass cycle.

Its good hearing from everyone. I do see some familiar screen names!!

[big49ersfan]

insulin on first cycle?? crazy

how much carbs did you have afterwards??

have run it since do you rate it??

[Matti]

I dont think it was that crazy for a first cycle to use slin. It is the most anabolic substance your body can produce. I was educated about it so the danger worries would be unfounded. I even used some t-3 during first cycle that I didn't list because I thought most beginners, not being educated enough, should not use this. If you have done your homework, however, different story. A little t-3 helps everything else your using work better.

I only use insulin for a 10 week period every year. I love the drug, I just know how dangerous EXTENDED use of it can be.

10 grams of carbs per every iu used. Hence 10 ius= 100 grams of carbs.

I rate the cycle I did top notch. I have spoke to many high-level competitors and they say they say alot of the deca, eq and other drug use is due to when they cannot get there hands on more test(they use what they can get) and drugs like primo, winny, anavar are more pre-contest when one wouldn't want the side effects from test (bloat, estrogen conversion).

I def felt this cycle. I knew I was ON after 5 days. gained 125 lbs on my bench, 215 on my squat and just felt so damn strong in every movement I did.

[big49ersfan]

im not having a go bro just i have always been told not to do i know that it is a great mass drug and im glad it worked for you.

did you take the carbd and complex ones/ simple or a mixture your cycle looks very interesting and i like the numbers.

[Matti]

Thanks bro. What I did with the carb complex was use a gatorade maltodextrin mixture 5 imediately after shooting the humalog. I waited about 5-10 minutes to become less bloated and then I would chug the whey. The creatine and glutamine i found to be better absorbed if injested like 10 minutes before whey for me so thats why i did that. I found myself to start feeling twinges of hunger about an hour after shooting the humalog, and i would eat a can of tuna, and 2 slices of white bread along with a 20 oz bottle of gatorade and 5 more crams of glutamine.

[big49ersfan]

did you run the slin upto pct, into ior beyond it. im very intrigued i know how much size i put on after i have not eaten carbs for 4-6weeks and then carb load it does a great job cos all the recpetors are then sensitised. SO im just wondering what would appen with slin!!

also y white bread? was it becasu eit was a simpler carb?

[Matti]

When you ask about running it into pct, what do you mean (sorry i'm bad with acronyms or whatever they are called). Yes, the white bread was eaten for a rapid rise in blood sugar (i'm not taking any chances with slin, and especially with Humalog) But also because it just tastes a whole lot better when you are bulking. I am not a big eater and can hardly eat over 2000 calories clean. This does work in my favor fur cutting, but for mass it sucks. The slin though helps me eat an additional 700 calories I wouldn't normally be able to eat and it all gets turned into muscle. I have devised a good strategy where I get about half of my nutrition from whey, MRP's, and weight gainer.

[Matti]

Your best gains will come after not eating carbs. After a contest, I still stay on anabolics for another month and train very hard. You gain so much mass back and its all muscle for the first 3-4 weeks. I personally am a little more bloated, but I love the way I look 4 weeks after a contest. Your vascularity is awesome about 10 days after a contest, still being on, training hard and eating carbs. I will then take a week to 10 days off training and then stop the anabolics after a month. I think it is a huge mistake to stop training and cycle off anabolics when you have the opportunity to jam tons of carbs into your muscles with training and eating the two week period after a contest. Take advantage of this very anabolic time. Let Me Know Big49ers Fan if you would like me to put up a post about a 6 week period of atkins dieting, high-rep high high volume training, lots of cardio and no anabolics and then jumping right into a massing phase. I was able to build up my support systems, carry more weight during my massing phase, break plateaus and become leaner in the end. It has to do with glycogen compensation, and giving yourself room to grow into.

[bdog]

you guys are right i'm gonna bump the test e up to 400/wk & run the decc at 300/wk..split mon & fri. what do you think i should run clom/nolva at? and should i stick with just the test & decc for my first cycle or should i throw some winny in at the end

[diamondcutcows]

you guys are right i'm gonna bump the test e up to 400/wk & run the decc at 300/wk..split mon & fri. what do you think i should run clom/nolva at? and should i stick with just the test & decc for my first cycle or should i throw some winny in at the end

Im gonna stick by "Only run one injectable your first run"

If you develop sides in wk 8 you won't know what caused them.

Running Test alone allows you to learn how you react to test, then you can see how you react to other AAS by adding Deca next run.

[bdog]

appreciate the info bro,as you can tell trying to soak up as much info as possible and not to just jump into it like alot of local cats...

[Experiment 626]

Dude,
If this is your first cycle of test then 250 a week for 12 weeks should do you just fine. I did two cycles just like that and gained 22lbs on the first and 12 on the second. On my second run I could have increased the dose or added d-bol or deca. For the first one, however 250 a week was just fine.

Buy your nolva before your cycle incase your nips explode.
If your like me you`ll need to run nolva 10-20 mg everyday from about week six to about 8 weeks post cycle but that`s different for everybody.

Begin clomid two weeks after your last shot. 300mg day one, 150mg ed for one week, 100mg ed three weeks following that and you should be just fine.

[bdog]

appreciate the info bro, what if i ran 250 test e/wk and added only like 150-200 decc/wk..i was told to add the decc to ease the pain..?

[diamondcutcows]

appreciate the info bro, what if i ran 250 test e/wk and added only like 150-200 decc/wk..i was told to add the decc to ease the pain..?

Read what I said about knowing where your sides are coming from...

If you get gyno running both deca & Test for the first time where do you think it's coming from?

Nolva would not help you at all if its Pro-Gyno...

[mickeymbbc]

thinking of running BD test enth. 250wk for 8-10wk, will be my first inj. tried some dbol tabs last year...thought about running the test with EQ or Decca.what you think.


BDOG:

It really depends on your cycle exp,age, training, rest,and nutrition. If this is your first cycle than you can get away with 250mg a week if your eating is on key, but 500mg would suit you better. You can run it alone or with EQ. a TEST-EQ cycle would be your best bet if this is your first cycle. Deca and test are ok also, but with deca comes water retention and with some people the nortorious DECA-DICK. If you do choose to run the deca and Test, just make sure that your test is higher to battle the libido that might come with it. Basically it all depends on your goals and your nutrition.

-mick

[bdog]

i appreciate all the info... i'm 5'10, 175lbs., 25yrs.

[VinNJ]

appreciate the info bro, what if i ran 250 test e/wk and added only like 150-200 decc/wk..i was told to add the decc to ease the pain..?

Bro thats almost exactly what my first cycle looked like back in 1989, I put on around 30 lbs & keep alot of it. Went from 208 to 238, ended up 228-30lbs.
Over the years of reading these boards, the one constant seems to be everyone gaining between 25-35lbs on there first cycle, the only differences are the amount of juice their using. I'm not ripping on anyone, to each there own.
Your cycle above seems fine.

[Gregalmighty]

Bump......

[mickeymbbc]

Bro thats almost exactly what my first cycle looked like back in 1989, I put on around 30 lbs & keep alot of it. Went from 208 to 238, ended up 228-30lbs.
Over the years of reading these boards, the one constant seems to be everyone gaining between 25-35lbs on there first cycle, the only differences are the amount of juice their using. I'm not ripping on anyone, to each there own.
Your cycle above seems fine.


Bump VinNJ: You will probably gain a good amount of weight on your first cycle, AGAIN!! IF YOU DIET IS IN CHECK. Just remember that everyone is going to give you oppinions on the there exp. What works for me, might not work for you....More gear doesn't mean more size. But in the future you will probably have to move up in dossage over time.( your body gets accustomed)





-mick

[VinNJ]

Mick,
I haven't touched any juice since '95 except for a 7 month run of gh 2iu/day a year and a half ago. My strenght went up slowly but steady and I had a nice change in body composition, didn't really even notice until one day(about 5 monthes later) for some reason I just noticed as was leaner.

I'm interested to see how my body will react to juice again. At 40 + yrs old, my goals have differntly changed. I'm not going to be preoccupied with the scale, I'm going to use the mirror more.

It's just some of the advice on these boards is crazy you see guys first cycles plans doing 800mg test, 600mg deca, 50mg dbol, tren, etc. That could be three cycles worth of juice. How do they know if they're good responders doing a more advanced cycle. They are doing 3 times more gear, but they're not getting 3x's more muscle.
They're still putting on 25-35lbs. Thats just what I noticed and ofcourse just my unqualified opinion as I'm not a Dr.


This isn't meant to be inflammatory, just tired of seeing first time cycler with a solid plan kinda feel like they have to do 2-3x's what they planed.

[Cockney nutjob]

Totally agree with you Vin, some of the proposed 1st cycles seem incredible.
I'm a reasonably lean 245 at 5-9 and have never used more than 500mg Test P/Wk.
Do you think guys are hitting gear much sooner than in the past and don't have the basic frame work or skeletal development to fully utilise gear?
I get the feeling they are starting way before they've exhausted their natural potential through training & diet and are searching for a quick fix.
Heck I'd trained for almost 9 years and was 210 before I even considered using gear.

[VinNJ]

I kinda responded to this thread because I just got tired of everyone saying more, more, more. And didn't want to see bdog think he had to do massive amount of juice.


Like Matti I also started lifted when I was 12 with the old cement weight sets that were around back then that I got for my birthday. Did my first cycle at around the 23years of age also. Between 200-300mg/wk test E & 100-200mg/wk deca ramped up 10-12 wks(16 years ago), cause that's what I was told to do from the gym rats. Put 30lbs + on. Keep 2/3's of it. Had great strenght gains. No PCT.

I remeber guys in the 80's making good gains of 10-15mg of d-bol day only cycles the lasted 6 wks.(around 15lbs.+)


Also tho, they were a lot harder to get then now days, and honestly if it were me starting my first cycle I would probable be doing a lot more also, cause we go by word of mouth and everyone is saying do more. Plus what a vareity of gear! My cycles used to revolve around what I can get my hands on.

I think people are using them early just because there easy to get now. They also probable understand also that they're realatively safe.

I rarely post on these boards, but I'm about to do my first cycle in ten years I'll post my progress. I'm 5'10" around 225lbs in my early 40's, BF% 15%ish. Plan a 12 wk simple cycle.

wk 1-12 250mg Test-e Iranin(maybe 333mg)
wk 1-12 200mg EQ
wk 1-8 10mg d-bol

I have pct on hand(hcg, nol, clom, amrx)

[mickeymbbc]

I totally agree with ya brutha, like I always say, "more doesnt mean better. It gives you body a chance to see what it can tolerate(and ofcourse if sides do arrise, it wouldnt be quite as dramatic.

Bdog: It looks like you got some solid advice from many here. Just keep it on the lower side to see how your body reacts, along with keeping you diet in check, and you will be good to go.:)


-mick

[bdog]

appreciate all the advise...i had made up my mind this past weekend to just stick with a lower dose for my first cycle..to see how i handle it
test e 375/wk
eq 200/wk

[Experiment 626]

That cycle sounds just fine now its up to food and training. My advice is eat five times a day like it was your religion. I don`t really think about food like lunch and dinner anymore. I eat steak or chicken with breakfast and every three or four hours it`s time to eat another meal.

If you can`t leave work until after five and you eat at noon, then tell your manager that your really working hard in the gym and wanna gain weight so is it ok if I eat these two lowfat turkey breast sandwitches with a small cup of rice on the side at 3:30? Do what you have to do but make sure you don`t go more than 4 hours without a meal, even if that meal is swinging by a 7-11 for a pack of peanuts and a quart of milk.

Sleep as much as you can and take naps on the weekends or after work.

Get some of that cheap whey protein from Optimum and take a scoop of it whenever it is convienant to do so, first thing in the am, just before bed, when you wake up in the middle of the night to take a piss, etc.

Last thing: Test E takes a good 4-6 weeks before you really start to blowup and feel like your on roids. (It`s kinda like starting your car in second gear) Don`t freak out if by week three you`ve only gained 4 pounds, stay the course, continue to eat train and sleep like your an east german powerlifter headed for the olympic trials... and you`ll look good when your done.

[Experiment 626]

Last, last thing:

Don`t forget to train with balance, your going to grow very fast and if you spend your whole cycle training legs and not your calves your going to look like crap.

So don`t forget: Calves, rear delts, forarms and brachiallis (hammer curls).

Peace,
626

[db2012]

my first cycle was QV EQ 250 @ 250mg every 2.5 days, so around 750/mg week. with just 2 weeks of dbol during first 2 weeks at 25mg/day. I gained 33lbs in 10 weeks on this one, granted I was bloated but my point is this is the dose I would recommend.