Pre & Post WO Supps

[Devils Mentor]

Hey there Bro... I first want to thank everyone for the PMs and kind words that I received from everyone, I truly have the highest respect and appreciation for everyone here! I am still working on my issues and myself, and trying to still get through everything, but life is life I guess... Well enuff of the mushy shit, lol...!

I have been doing a half ass version of Static's Tuna & Veggis diet and so far lost about 35-lbs. I've am starting to see some nice results in my Traps, Delts, Tris, Bis and Chest; i can feel the results in my Lats, but because of the Lat Fat, it is not visibly noticeable yet.

I've taken my Trap Shrugs from 140 to 210, my Tris from 85 to 125, Back rows from 180 to MAX on the cable (don't recall the weight), I got up 1,100 on the Leg Press and did a half ass squat for 450... blah...blah...blah... My bench should be around 285-300 -/+ but my fucked up shoulder will not take the weight to push it home :(

Not impressive numbers, but at least I can see for the first time since my car accident, I am coming along. Plus the Trim is starting to check out my shit more and more... lol...


Anyways, I need some help figuring out my supp routine & dosing. For the most part I am still trying to focus more on dropping my BF while taking on or at least maintain muscle. I am currently doing the classic E/C stack and keeping my Carbs around 30g to 50g Sun-Thur then Fri & Sat I'll cheat (Sushi is my cheat, lol). I tell myself I am Carb Cycling, lol... efff... I just need my Sushi fix!!! :p


Here is what everything looks like...



Cardio M-Sat: I do 1st Cardio Session on an empty stomach for 45min with a THR of 160bpm. Then I'll go and eat. I will take my Supps (see Blue) 30min prior to WO. I also do a 2nd Cardio Session after lifting for 25-30min. I am doing OJS's Cardio WO... (http://alinboard.com/showthread.php?t=28837) but adding a 2nd session.

Weights M/W/F: Few hours after 1st Cardio -- Lift till done -- And again, 2nd Cardio for 25-30min after lifting. Right now I am not taking anything Pre or Post WO for Muscle Therapy.


Here is what I was thinking...

*I currently take

Pre Cardio:
E/C Stack 3 x Day -
Vit.
Dandelion Root
Taurine
Nitric Oxide booster (Jack3d) <--- NOT impressed so far!!
L-Carnitine
????

Pre WO:
Whey Concentrate (Get it from Optimum Nutrition Protein Diet) 1g per 1lb
Nitric Oxide booster (Jack3d)
????

Post WO:
Whey Isolate 1g per 1lb
BCAA
Casein
????

Before Bed:
Whey Concentrate
Casein
????


Because I am focusing mainly on lowering my BF right now, I just want to make sure that I limit my Muscle loss as much as I can.

Thanks guys!

DM

[xvvfacevvx]

Im not a mental giant when it comes to cutting, I do know however, it is essential to supply your body with around 75g of carbs directly after a workout to suppress cortisol levels, create a spike in insulin, basically get your hormones back up and running. I would think about that first....

[tx_frc]

you're taking a shake pre workout thats 1g per 1lb bodyweight? so lets say a 200g protein shake, then lets say 2hrs later post workout 200g again? thats insane if so.
1. all that protein is sitting in your stomach during the workout, i'd puke within 5min if i had protein within 30min before a workout.
thats very taxing on your body to process all of that, also, you wont be absorbing more than probably 60g of that, the rest you'll just shit out.
2. most important thing post workout is to spike insulin via a fast carb. WMS is obviously the cheapest of fastest ratio. i just run a shake with 1.5cups oatmeal and 40g protein. then follow it up 45min later with a solid meal.

[Devils Mentor]

Im not a mental giant when it comes to cutting, I do know however, it is essential to supply your body with around 75g of carbs directly after a workout to suppress cortisol levels, create a spike in insulin, basically get your hormones back up and running. I would think about that first....

Yeah I know, but I need to focus on the BF... I know you can't really Cut and Bulk all in the same sitting, but then again I not really trying to do that, I just don't want to lose muscle. ;)

DM

[Devils Mentor]

you're taking a shake pre workout thats 1g per 1lb bodyweight? so lets say a 200g protein shake, then lets say 2hrs later post workout 200g again? thats insane if so.
1. all that protein is sitting in your stomach during the workout, i'd puke within 5min if i had protein within 30min before a workout.
thats very taxing on your body to process all of that, also, you wont be absorbing more than probably 60g of that, the rest you'll just shit out.
2. most important thing post workout is to spike insulin via a fast carb. WMS is obviously the cheapest of fastest ratio. i just run a shake with 1.5cups oatmeal and 40g protein. then follow it up 45min later with a solid meal.

lol... I didn't even realize that it was reading like that, lol... proof reading for the loss, lol... geeez... I was basically saying that I try to make sure that I am getting the minimum 1to1 of proteins in for the day ;)


DM

[xvvfacevvx]

Yeah I know, but I need to focus on the BF... I know you can't really Cut and Bulk all in the same sitting, but then again I not really trying to do that, I just don't want to lose muscle. ;)

DM


You do realize that cortisol plays a chief role in encouraging your body to store fat right? The point of ingesting cabs after a workout is to get your body back up and running, repair muscle tissue, and also burn body fat. By starving your body of carbs your doing the opposite.

[Devils Mentor]

You do realize that cortisol plays a chief role in encouraging your body to store fat right? The point of ingesting cabs after a workout is to get your body back up and running, repair muscle tissue, and also burn body fat. By starving your body of carbs your doing the opposite.

Yeah I am in a catch 22 situation, but it's working pretty dang well right now. Like I said, my strength is going up, the fat is dropping, and I am seeing some definition, but I know I can feed my muscles better than I am now since I am not doing a Pre/Post WO Supp intake. I know that I am not maximizing my muscle gain right now, but that is not my focus, but then again I what to try and save it too. ;)


DM

[xvvfacevvx]

Just curious how many pounds exactly of fat did you lose? What are your starting and current BF %. Also how are you monitoring your body fat... I understand that you are dropping weight, good job. But I don't think you quite understand what Im saying. In theory; upon completion of a workout, if you do not ingest fast acting carbs, your bodies cortisol levels rise rapidly. In turn your body starts to store body fat instead of burning it. Please answer my questions. Thank you

[Devils Mentor]

Just curious how many pounds exactly of fat did you lose? What are your starting and current BF %. Also how are you monitoring your body fat... I understand that you are dropping weight, good job. But I don't think you quite understand what Im saying. In theory; upon completion of a workout, if you do not ingest fast acting carbs, your bodies cortisol levels rise rapidly. In turn your body starts to store body fat instead of burning it. Please answer my questions. Thank you

Well I did not do a body comp, but I can deff see the change in my physique. Just looking at the tried and true areas: gut, lats, chin, tits, and back I can see a dramatic loss in fat mass and a increase in muscle definition. Also I am now wearing a pair of Tommys that I have not be able to fit in for over 3 years, whats more, my jeans I just recently bought, are sooo lose that, even with a belt, I can't wear them without looking like a crack heads because they are so damn baggy, lol...

Do you know what an ASS DYNO is, lol...? If you are into cars and HP then you will know what I am talking about. Well it's on the same lines of thinking, lol... You know you picked up 20hp, because you can feel it... ;)

I am eating after I WO, I am just limiting my carbs to 30-50g per day Sun-Thurs.

Believe me Bro, I am not storing fat ;) Even thought I am all new to the fat burning science, since I am coming from a Powerlifting background, I can still tell with out a doubt that I am dropping my Bf% ;)

DM

[xvvfacevvx]

Believe me Bro, I am not storing fat ;) Even thought I am all new to the fat burning science, since I am coming from a Powerlifting background, I can still tell with out a doubt that I am dropping my Bf% ;)

DM


I guess you know everything then :rolleyes: Like I said congratulations on the weight loss. Bottom line, if you are not monitoring your LBM properly, regardless of how you think you look and how clothes are fitting, you will never know for certain what kind of weight you are losing. Lets say in a couple months you completely plateau, the scale does not budge, and you do not have a log on how your diet effected your LBM and body fat. At this point you will be taking a shot in the dark on how you are going to resume losing weight. If there was ever a time to learn about how your body reacts to certain diets, now would be the time to observe and use for future reference. In my opinion you are shooting your self in the foot for not taking advantage of this particular situation.

[Devils Mentor]

I guess you know everything then :rolleyes: Like I said congratulations on the weight loss. Bottom line, if you are not monitoring your LBM properly, regardless of how you think you look and how clothes are fitting, you will never know for certain what kind of weight you are losing. Lets say in a couple months you completely plateau, the scale does not budge, and you do not have a log on how your diet effected your LBM and body fat. At this point you will be taking a shot in the dark on how you are going to resume losing weight. If there was ever a time to learn about how your body reacts to certain diets, now would be the time to observe and use for future reference. In my opinion you are shooting your self in the foot for not taking advantage of this particular situation.

Bro, I am doing a low carb diet and @ 30g of carbs a day you are going to lose BF; you will also lose muscle, this I know, but a low carb diet is designed to attack fat loss. I understand that you are saying that some of my weight loss can be contributed to muscle loss, and I agree to that, but I am also see decent gains in strength and muscle size.

Unless I am missing something that you are saying Bro, I am losing BF pretty damn well and building muscle on this diet. It's not like i reinvented the low-cal diet, it works and I see it quite clearly. Believe me, I know when I am losing BF, I've been living with it for 8+ years, lol... so when it's dropping I can tell. But like I said, I must be missing something in your post.

Thanks Bro! :D
DM

[xvvfacevvx]

Believe me, I know when I am losing BF, I've been living with it for 8+ years, lol... so when it's dropping I can tell. But like I said, I must be missing something in your post.

Thanks Bro! :D
DM

You are missing the whole point. The point is; our diets are dictated on our LEAN BODY MASS, assuming you know what that means. When you lose weight or gain weight, your diet has to be altered because of your change in body composition. If you do not know your LBM, how can you determine how many grams of protein you need to eat in a day, or how many grams of fats, these number can vary from 50g to 600g's! All in all you need to monitor your LBM so you know how to effectively tailor your diet as your progress. Below is a link on a thread I did, it is mainly geared towards gaining weight however, all the formulas and basic prinicples still apply to you. Read it.

http://www.alinboard.com/showthread.php?t=31118

[Devils Mentor]

You are missing the whole point. The point is; our diets are dictated on our LEAN BODY MASS, assuming you know what that means. When you lose weight or gain weight, your diet has to be altered because of your change in body composition. If you do not know your LBM, how can you determine how many grams of protein you need to eat in a day, or how many grams of fats, these number can vary from 50g to 600g's! All in all you need to monitor your LBM so you know how to effectively tailor your diet as your progress. Below is a link on a thread I did, it is mainly geared towards gaining weight however, all the formulas and basic prinicples still apply to you. Read it.

http://www.alinboard.com/showthread.php?t=31118

Thanks for the link, I will deff be reading it more than once ;)

As for my LBM, I am 220lbs lean last time I had a body comp done, IIRC my BF% was 21% so I just use those #'s since nothing has dramatically changes. But I will be getting it done soon because it has been bugging me on what my #'s are now. I am going to try that new air volume tube thing since i don't really like calipers and there are no hydro static chambers in my area to do water displacement.

If I was not so worried about the low-cal diet then I wouldn't has such an issue, but I want to maintain the diet, but also feed what my muscle need. I mean when I think of insulin spiking, I think storing Fat, lol... but I guess that since I just got done with blasting my body and I'm totally depleted of glycogen the carbs will quickly be used without too much worry of storage.


DM

[Invrt]

I guess you know everything then :rolleyes: Like I said congratulations on the weight loss. Bottom line, if you are not monitoring your LBM properly, regardless of how you think you look and how clothes are fitting, you will never know for certain what kind of weight you are losing. Lets say in a couple months you completely plateau, the scale does not budge, and you do not have a log on how your diet effected your LBM and body fat. At this point you will be taking a shot in the dark on how you are going to resume losing weight. If there was ever a time to learn about how your body reacts to certain diets, now would be the time to observe and use for future reference. In my opinion you are shooting your self in the foot for not taking advantage of this particular situation.

~bump~

You need to read nutrition timing by John Ivy PhD

[musclemd]

Im not a mental giant when it comes to cutting, I do know however, it is essential to supply your body with around 75g of carbs directly after a workout to suppress cortisol levels, create a spike in insulin, basically get your hormones back up and running. I would think about that first....

Bump this- great advice