First Test Cycle, what do you think?

[nangwalt]

This is going to be my first cycle with test. I am 27 y/o, 6'1", 210lbs(not fat).
This is what I was thinking:

Test Prop 100mgs EOD for 12 wks
TBol 40mgs ED for 7 wks
Nolvadex through out the cycle (not sure about dosages?)
And than I need recommendations for PCT.

Thanks

[AlwaysBanned]

Don't run nolva throughout the cycle; it will hinder your gains. Run an ai like arimidex if you are worried about gyno.

Nolva and Clomid should consist your pct.

If you are man enough to stick yourself eod for 12 weeks, then prop is a badass choice and my personal favorite form of test.

I prefer dbol over tbol. Good luck.

[nangwalt]

I'm using TBol just because I don't want the water retention that comes with DBol.

"Don't run nolva throughout the cycle; it will hinder your gains. Run an ai like arimidex if you are worried about gyno."

What dosage would I want to run arimidex at?

"Nolva and Clomid should consist your pct."

What dosage for these two and when do I start and stop them?

Thanks for the help.

[henryhairyballs]

Arimidex @ .25mg each day. Increase to .5 if gyno appears.
3 week pct of clomid and nolvadex

Week 1: 150mg clomid everyday, 60mg nolvadex everyday
Week 2: 100mg clomid everyday, 40mg nolvadex everyday
Week 3: 50mg clomid everyday, 20mg nolvadex everyday

Tbol for 6 weeks @ 40-50mg per day

Not sure when to start pct with test prop. I think 2 days after last pin. Not sure... Need to ask these guys like dudchick.

Hope that helps.

[AlwaysBanned]

Understandable on the bloat issue with dbol....it does turn you into a pufferfish.

Run the arimidex at .25mg ed throughout your cycle.

As for your pct, start it exactly 3 days from your last shot of test prop.

200mg clomid/40mg nolva -- 3 days
100mg clomid/30mg nolva -- 4 days
50mg clomid/20mg nolva -- 7 days

[MoCo]

For an AI do some research on exemestane. I used Arimidex in my first cycle, but after doing some reading I think I'm going to go with exemestane from here on out.

For dosages on PCT, you can easily find information on this using the search function. You should start it 3-4 days after your last pin if you're using Prop.

[AlwaysBanned]

Need to ask these guys like dudchick.

Hope that helps.

dudchick? LMAO...hes gonna flame you for butchering his name.

A 3 week pct is not necessary with test prop. 2 weeks is sufficient.

Your pct protocol would be good for a test cyp cycle.

[henryhairyballs]

Oops 3-4 days after last shot... And the pct dosages... There r so many variations and dosages.. Depends on your reaction to the aas. And how u recover .. In which u will find out.

[henryhairyballs]

Haha my bad dudcki.... Lol it was a typo. Ya alwaysbanned is right. His pct should be efficient.

[tx_frc]

+1 on going with cyp or enan for first run until you know you can deal with and are available for pinning every other day. IMHO, your not going to notice a *massive* difference between the esters if your diet is up to par. of course if you were stacking it with a few others you would match the half life lengths as close as you could. but thats not the case with your test only cycle.

[AlwaysBanned]

Who suggested test cyp?:confused:

[tx_frc]

woops. guess i was filling in the blanks in my head on giving alternatives to EOD inj.

[nangwalt]

Is .25 mg of arimidex going to be enough? Also, do I keep taking it during PCT or no?

BTW thanks AlwaysBanned you've been a huge help, I already rep'd you.

[henryhairyballs]

Ouch... And I was no help? Where's my rep point? Lol. Yes .25mg is enough.

[nangwalt]

Taking care of henryhairyballs and thanks. I'm excited to get my order in and start this cycle now. What kind of gains do you you guys think I'll get. I'm a fairly easy gainer.

[henryhairyballs]

haha if your diet is in check, you train hard... then you should expect lean gains. id say 15lbs minimum.

[nangwalt]

15lbs of lean gains in 12 weeks? Yea I think I can handle that. With a cycle like this you think I'll keep most of it when I come off as long as I keep my diet in check and keep training hard PC?

[AlwaysBanned]

Is .25 mg of arimidex going to be enough? Also, do I keep taking it during PCT or no?

BTW thanks AlwaysBanned you've been a huge help, I already rep'd you.

Yes, that dosage is more than enough to prevent sides.

No, do not continue the arimidex into your pct.

You have a chance to gain anywhere from 10-20lb during this cycle, of which 7-15 lb will probably stick. Diet, training, and genetics will all play a part in this. I gained 15+ lbs on my first cycle.

You're welcome.

[henryhairyballs]

no matter what.. keep your diet RIGHT!!! and train just as hard no matter how much size/strength you lose. you are always gonna lose some no matter what during pct. just have your mentality ready bro.. you will suceed

[nangwalt]

That's awesome. Just out of curiousity what was your first cycle?

[henryhairyballs]

i gained 32lbs on my first one. lmao. kept 18-20lbs of it! ;) people hate me for my genetics.. and i did a cycle that coulda been much better

[henryhairyballs]

weeks 1-12: 500mg Sustanon per week
weeks 1-12: 25mg Proviron everyday
weeks 1-6: 30mg DBOL everyday
weeks 5- 8: 100mg Test E per week

standard PCT clomid and nolva
week 14:100mg Clomid/ 40mg nolvadex
week 15:50mg Clomid/ 40mg nolvadex
week 16:50mg Clomid/ 20mg nolvadex

152lbs- 184lbs.. 173lbs present day

bench max went from 365 to 425.. can still do 405
squat max jumped.. 335 to 425
was curlin 50lb dumbells for sets of 20... started curlin 70lb dumbells for 20 reps. lol

[AlwaysBanned]

no matter what.. keep your diet RIGHT!!! and train just as hard no matter how much size/strength you lose. you are always gonna lose some no matter what during pct. just have your mentality ready bro.. you will suceed

Solid advice, Henry. :cool:

That's awesome. Just out of curiousity what was your first cycle?

Iranian Test Enanthate (Alin no longer sells this product)

i gained 32lbs on my first one. lmao. kept 18-20lbs of it! ;) people hate me for my genetics.. and i did a cycle that coulda been much better

This nigga has freak genetics....don't expect these type of gains^^^

[henryhairyballs]

haha makes me wana be cocky bout my genes.. lol just kiddin.. thanks alwaysbanned. cant wait till tommorrow... im expecting a package :).... 2nd cycle gona be an awesome one!

[nangwalt]

Ok so after all you guys have said and talking to my brother(who's been juicing for 10+ years, figured a good source since we have basically the same genetics) this is going to be the cycle that I run. What do you guys think?

-50mgs of Prop EOD for 12 weeks
-400mgs of EQ Every Week for 10 weeks
-40mgs of Tbol ED for 6 weeks
-.25mg Arimidex ED for 12 weeks (.50mg if I get sides)
-PCT 40mg Nolva for 3 days
30mg Nolva for 4 days
20mg Nolva for 7 days
10mg Nolva for 7 days

[tx_frc]

200mg of prop isnt a lot of test., youre running double the eq than test.
id to 400prop and 3-400eq.
i'd start your eq on weeks 1-12 , then stagger your test for weeks 2-13. will let them clear at nearly same time before you start pct. then start pct 1 wk after last prop shot.

my last pct i did novla and clomid, at higher does than that, without ramping down as much. i think only running 10mg of nolva for a whole week isnt going to do much for recovery. since 20mg is the norm ON cycle to keep bloat and est. down.

is the tbol going to be on the front end or back end? i'd put it on the front.

[henryhairyballs]

100mg-150mg Test Prop EOD to 13 weeks(to outlive the EQ esters)
400mg EQ to 10 weeks (reason being EQ's esters are long)
Tbol is fine at beginning.
Taking arimidex 0.25mg everyday throughtout wouldnt be a bad idea. increase to 0.5mg if gyno appears.

ADD CLOMID TO YOUR PCT, alwaysbanned can help you get your PCT straightened out. Heres my idea:
1-150mg clomid, 60mg nolvadex
2-100mg Clomid, 40mg nolvadex
3-50 mg clomid, 20mg nolvadex

after this... you are G2G

[tx_frc]

^ looks good.
i ran 150mg of clomid for about 4 days and i was getting some insane depression so i dropped it down to 100. i dont know if it was the clomid, the dosage of it, or just not being on test. guess i'll find out this time in about 8 wks!

[nangwalt]

You think I should run that much test on my first cycle?

[drob29]

This is going to be my first cycle with test. I am 27 y/o, 6'1", 210lbs(not fat).
This is what I was thinking:

Test Prop 100mgs EOD for 12 wks
TBol 40mgs ED for 7 wks
Nolvadex through out the cycle (not sure about dosages?)
And than I need recommendations for PCT.

Thanks

Swoll (AB) you deserve a bitch slap bro. You been here long enough, WTF?
HHB gets a pass on this one because he's newer.

what we know
age 27
6 ft 1
not fat:eek: (nice...)

what we have no idea of
lift history - what if he has been working out "3 solid months"?
training split - what does he do in the gym? whats he lifting?
Goals - other than HHB mentioning a possible weight gain, what are his goals
Diet - whats he eat and when?

So I gotta ask guys.... 3 pages in this thread, lots of discussion about AAS, but what about the other 85% of the equation? Without knowing how long he has worked out, what he can currently bench, what his goals are, and what his diet is, how the F can you toss out cycle advice?

Possibly he is ready to go, maybe not. but based on what I read here, there is no way you can talk AAS without qualifying where he is at at what he has done to get there. And diet, diet is the single most overlooked piece. We need to know what he eats.

Also, I see no mention of getting bloodwork done. Before your first cycle its important to get bloodwork done so you have a baseline. That way after PCT you get it done again and see where your at.

again, what we know: 27, 210, "not fat". THATS IT:eek:

nangwalt please post:

lift history
current training split
diet: be specific
goals

Guys I am a member here just like you. The reason alinboard is miles above of other gym rat AAS boards like outlawmuscle and anabolex is that over there the focus is on AAS, here I would like to think there is more to it than that.

"my 2 cents"

[nangwalt]

My training split is:
Day 1: Chest & Back & Abs
Day 2: Shoulders & Arms & Abs
Day 3: Legs & Abs
Day 4: Chest & Back & Abs
Day 5: Shoulders & Arms & Abs
I three exercises, four sets per exercise, and between 8-12 reps per set.

My diet is:
3-4 Eggs
Protein Bar
Protein Shake
Chicken & Rice
Protein Shake
Chicken
Protein Shake

I have been lifting on and off since a teenager, but have been lifting regularly since Jan of 2009. I have done two oral cycles of Tbol. One the last half of last year and the 2nd the first half of this year.

Anything else you need to know?

[Invrt]

My training split is:
Day 1: Chest & Back & Abs
Day 2: Shoulders & Arms & Abs
Day 3: Legs & Abs
Day 4: Chest & Back & Abs
Day 5: Shoulders & Arms & Abs
I three exercises, four sets per exercise, and between 8-12 reps per set.

My diet is:
3-4 Eggs
Protein Bar
Protein Shake
Chicken & Rice
Protein Shake
Chicken
Protein Shake

I have been lifting on and off since a teenager, but have been lifting regularly since Jan of 2009. I have done two oral cycles of Tbol. One the last half of last year and the 2nd the first half of this year.

Anything else you need to know?

First BF% ! Spend the $30 to get a caliper test.
Calorie break down....how many calories are you eating ???? Are you eating 6lbs of chicken and 20 cups of rice? Or 5 oz chicken and 1/2cup rice ? Do you even know ?
www.fitday.com
How many grams protein ???

[nangwalt]

3-4 Eggs = 18-24g protein
Protein Bar = 30g protein
Protein Shake = 24g protein
Post Workout
Chicken & Rice = 2 chicken breasts and 1 cup rice / 60g & 5.2g protein
Protein Shake = 40g protein
Chicken = 1 chicken breast / 30g protein
Protein Shake = 24g protein

Total Protein = Approximately 201.2-207.2g protein

I don't track calories. I eat this pretty religiously, the only difference being sometimes instead of eggs in the morning if I'm running late I have a protein shake instead. I keep it clean and count protein.

[drob29]

My training split is:
Day 1: Chest & Back & Abs
Day 2: Shoulders & Arms & Abs
Day 3: Legs & Abs
Day 4: Chest & Back & Abs
Day 5: Shoulders & Arms & Abs
I three exercises, four sets per exercise, and between 8-12 reps per set.

............

Thanks for the post. where are your off days from the gym? And when do you do legs? (EDIT ok I see legs on day 3)

as a point of reference what can you bench 10 times clean? Also can you post a current pic?

And that training split needs work IMO. Back and chest on same day makes no sense, and your not resting or taking time off. Growth comes from rest and proper nutrition as well as a solid training split.

Something like:
day 1 chest tri
day 2 off
day3 back bi
day 4 legs
day 5 shoulders
day 6 off
repeat

Speaking of proper nutrition:

3-4 Eggs = 18-24g protein
Protein Bar = 30g protein
Protein Shake = 24g protein
Post Workout
Chicken & Rice = 2 chicken breasts and 1 cup rice / 60g & 5.2g protein
Protein Shake = 40g protein
Chicken = 1 chicken breast / 30g protein
Protein Shake = 24g protein

Total Protein = Approximately 201.2-207.2g protein

I don't track calories. I eat this pretty religiously, the only difference being sometimes instead of eggs in the morning if I'm running late I have a protein shake instead. I keep it clean and count protein.

So...whats your goal? If its to gain 20 lbs on this cycle then that diet wont work. Your eatiing what amounts to 3 small meals a day. Here is a good site, free to join, like invrt already posted:

www.fitday.com

you need to know your caloric intake. Your a big guy and on cycle you'll need 4-5000 calories a day to add 20 lbs. NO WAY your current diet is even 1/2 that.
and dont forget to get your bloodwork done.

Post up a bit more and we will get you on the right track.

Thanks

[AlwaysBanned]

LOL a bitch slap drob? Really?:eek::rolleyes:

[drob29]

LOL a bitch slap drob? Really?:eek::rolleyes:

Yes.:cool:

AB look at what he is eating, and his training split, and you tell me if you think he would gain 20 lbs on *any* cycle. Seems to me the focus in this thread was AAS only. You been here long enough to know to ask the right questions before just throwing up a cycle.

You and I go back bro, what, years now. Here and at other boards. You know I mean no disrespect. I am just calling it like I see it....

peace

[AlwaysBanned]

Yeah drob you and I do go back years now...no offense taken. :cool:

You are right. His diet and regimen are weak. I jump the gun sometimes with the AAS advice without the op providing enough backround info.

[nangwalt]

I take two days off after the five days on. So...
Day 1: Chest & Back & Abs
Day 2: Shoulders & Arms & Abs
Day 3: Legs & Abs
Day 4: Chest & Back & Abs
Day 5: Shoulders & Arms & Abs
Day 6: Rest
Day 7: Rest

I can bench 200lbs 10 times clean.

And current pic...

Anything else you need to know?

[Invrt]

You need to cut before you cycle. You need to see your abs. .....NOT ab!

[drob29]

You need to cut before you cycle. You need to see your abs. .....NOT ab!

agreed.

and the pic says alot. Thanks for posting it. Straight up: your arms are tiny, your shoulders are as well. Your about 18%bf. I will say you have some potential. You have been up front and honest so far. All good. Here is what I will say:

Bro your training split blows. Take a close look at that pic. Your training split is holding you back. Chest is push and back is pull, you cant grow both by working them same day. Think chest/tri. back/bi, shoulders, legs, and rest between workouts. Your doing your chest twice in 4 days. work chest/tri every 6 days. look at what I posted before re: training split. FIRST you need to fix how you train because right now its broken.

And your diet, well it's just ugly, as in bad. I wont go into everything because I'm tierd and others can chime in, but I will say you need to eat a FUCK load more. Without eating enough it wont matter what you take for steroids, or how you train. Food is the most anabolic substance on the planet. You need to eat three times as much. Join fitday, it helped me tremendously.

Take 2-3 months and get your diet and training in order, then see where your at. Running a cycle now would be a complete waste, and any gains you get you will lose becase you are not close to feeding a 210 lb body for growth, let alone a 220+ body.

good bunch of people here, I hope you listen up. Others will chime in.

"my 2 cents":cool:

[nangwalt]

Ok I'll try your split. How many exercises and sets per body part?

So what I'm eating is good and clean though right? I just need to double or triple my intake?

I'll try that site. And thanks for the help drob. Once I get my BF down some more I'll post another pic and see if you think I'm ready for a cycle at that point. I wasn't planning on running one til winter anyways. Wanna be able to cover up sides if I get them ie acne.

[xvvfacevvx]

As already mentioned no need for juice; Diet and Training need to be set before we move forward. Drob has given an outline of a solid 4 day split. Generally speaking training your body part once a week is a fool proof way to make gains. However there is more than one way to skin a cat, this can not be more true when it comes to bodybuilding. We know that everyone reacts in a unique manner when we train, some progress very easily when other struggle to make the smallest of gains. The same can be said about dieting. Below is a couple of old posts I made about dieting and training.

TRAINING:

MON; UPPER
BB bench press 5x5. (180second rest intervals)
BB shoulder press. (same as above)
Weighted Pull ups. (same as above)
Arnold bicep cheater curls. 3x8 (120 second intervals)
Close grip press (same as above)

NOTES: In this portion of my training routine I am performing very heavy compound lifts with 3 minutes intervals. This is allowing me to stress the TYPE II(B) muscle fibers. The long rest periods allows my muscles to restore my ATP-PC levels.

TUES; LOWER
Squat. 5x5 (180 second rest intervals)
Leg Press 5x5 (same as above)
Standing Calf raise 3x8 (120 second rest interval)
donkey calf raise 3x8 (same as above)
Incline sit ups 3x50 (60 second intervals)

NOTES; Same theory as upper.

WED; OFF

Notes; I try to take an extra nap on this day. Also making sure that i get 10 hours of sleep that night.

THUR; Upper
Pec flys 3x12-15 ( 90 second intervals)
Shoulder raises 3x12-15 (Same as above)
Bent over rows 3x12-15 (Same as above)
Concentration curls 2x12-15 (same as above)
Cable pull downs 2x12-15 (Same as above)


Notes; On this day I back off in intensity and increase my volume as well as decreasing my rest periods. I do this so I trigger my lactic acid as well as my aerobic energy levles. Also I frequently change my lifts. IE. week 1; Flat bench flys, week 2 Incline flys, week 3 cable flys. I do this to insure overall muscle development.

FRI; Lower
Lunges 3x12-15 (90 second intervals)
Leg extensions 3x12-15 (same as above)
Leg curls 3x12-15 (same as above)
Seated Calf raises 2-12x15 (same as above)
Roman chair leg lifts 3x50 (60 second rest intervals)

Notes; Same as above

DIETING:

I want to say first off diet is the key factor, not just for bulking but any goal that you desire to achieve starts in the kitchen! When begining to construct a meal plan there are a couple things you need to know
1. Body weight
2. Body fat
3. Lean body mass (This is how much your body would weigh if you were 0% Body fat)
Once we have these figures we can now begin to construct a tailored diet. First we ask our self's "How many calories do I need to consume to gain weight?" Take your Lean body weight (LBM) and times(x) it by 22. For example, Lets say you have a LBM of 136lbs.
[136LBM X 22= 2,992 Calories]
Okay, so now we know that we need to eat at least 3,000 calories a day. But how many grams of protein should I eat? This is when nutrient ratios come into the picture, these ratios say how much of the 3,000 calores needs to be Carbohydrates, protein, and Fats. I prefer 40/40/20 formula.

MASS DIET MATH
Carbs(40%): 3,000 X .40 = 1,200Kcal
Protein (40%): 3,000 x .40 = 1,200Kcal
Fats (20%): 3,000 x .20 = 600Kcal

1 gram carb = 4 calories
1 gram Protein = 4 calories
1 gram fat =9 calories

Daily requirements;
Carbs; 1,200 / 4 = 300 grams
Protein; 1,200 / 4 = 300 grams
Fats; 600 / 9 = 66 grams

Right, now we have all the numbers we need to begin constructing our diet. But wait " What kind of food should I eat?" Here is a list of foods that I believe are most benefical.

Carbs; Whole wheat, Oats, Sweet Potato, Cranberrys, Maltodextrin, Waxy Maize, brown and white rice, mixed veges.

Protein; Eggs (whole eggs, hard boiled) Beef, chicken breast, Salmon, whey protein.

Fats; Extra virgin olive oil, flaxseed oil, avocados, nuts, heavy whipping cream.

So now we know what foods are good. We start by constructing our meals individually. Decide if you want to eat 5 or 6 times daily. Takes your total daily requirements and divide that by 5 or 6. This will tell you how much you should be eating each meal, each meal should be spread out evenly throughout the day (usually every 3-4 hours). To find out the nutritional value of foods go to www.fitday.com This website has thousands of foods with its values.
Hers is a list of supplements that I use with success
100% Whey protein.
Creatine Mono.
Muscle Juice weight gainer.

Last but definetly not least make sure you are taking a good multi-vitamin daily. I prefer GNC's Mega mens. And be sure to be drinking at least 1 gallon of water daily. Remember when your LMB increases your diet needs to as well. I highly recommend you take weekly body fat measurments to keep track of your progress. If you find that you are gaining mostly fat, you can adjust the ratios and lower your carb intake. If you are simply not gaining raise your daily Kcal by 500, wait 3 weeks and monitor your progress.

[AlwaysBanned]

Geez bro you are getting some killer advice here for free.

I say soak it up.

[nangwalt]

Ok so this is the routine I'm gonna run based off of drob's split:
DAY 1: CHEST AND TRICEPS:
BARBELL BENCH-4
BARBELL INCLINE-4
DUMBBELL FLYES-4
PULLOVERS-4
STANDING TRICEPS-4
SKULL CRUSHERS-4
ONE ARM EXTS-4
PRESSDOWNS-4
CRUNCHES-3x25
LEG RAISES-3x20
CRUNCHES-50
DAY 2: REST
DAY 3: BACK AND BICEPS:
LAT PULLDOWNS-4
SEATED ROWS-4
T BAR ROWS-4
HYPEREXTENSIONS-4
STANDING BARBELL-4
SEATED CURLS-4
PREACHER CURLS-4
HAMMER CURLS-4
LEG RAISES-3x20
CRUNCHES-3x25
LEG RAISES-3x20
DAY 4: LEGS:
SQUATS-3
HALF SQUATS-3
STANDING CALF-4
LEG PRESSES-3
LEG PRESS CALF-4
LEG CURLS-3
STANDING LEG CURLS-3
CRUNCHES-3x25
LEG RAISES-3x20
CRUNCHES-50
DAY 5: SHOULDERS:
ARNOLD PRESSES-4
LATERAL RAISES-4
BENT RAISES-4
FRONT RAISES-4
MACHINE PRESSES-4
DUMBBELL SHRUGS-4
UPRIGHT ROWS-4
CRUNCHES-3x25
LEG RAISES-3x20
CRUNCHES-50
DAY 6: REST
And my diet as follows(used FitDay.com):
1ST MEAL 4 EGGS & 2 TOAST
2ND MEAL 1 PROTEIN BAR
3RD MEAL 2 SCOOP PROTEIN SHAKE
4TH MEAL 1 CHICKEN & 2 CUPS RICE
5TH MEAL 1 SCOOP PROTEIN SHAKE
6TH MEAL 1 CHICKEN & 1 CUP RICE
7TH MEAL 2 SCOOP PROTEIN SHAKE
Calories: 3,087 - Fat: 82.6g - Carbs: 224g - Protein: 345.8g

Gonna measure and check BF tommorrow. I'll let you guys know where I am in a month. Thanks for all the help.

[xvvfacevvx]

That workout you made is horrible, there is no need for that many exercises per body part. You want to start with the biggest movements first then work your way down to the smaller muscle groups. Here is an example:

Shoulders;
Barbell shoulder press 3 sets 6-8 reps
Dumbell press 3 sets 12-15 reps
Side raises 2 sets 18-20 reps.

And lastly, why in the world do people think that there traps are in the same muscle group as shoulders. I see people train shoulders and then superset with shurgs. You do realize that the traps are located on your BACK! So go ahead and rethink your shoulder day. Go back and read my first post brosky. In my honest opinion, based on your posts, you remind me of 90% of the people in the gym that think they know what there doing but in all reality they have very little logic in their training. AAS should remain a pipe-dream for you.

[nangwalt]

Actually according to Arnold's book a minimum of 16 sets per body part. So you think you no more than professionals and 8 sets per body part is enough?
Also, probably no more about A&P than you considering the numerous classes I've taken on it. Nice try though talking like to know.

[xvvfacevvx]

Actually according to Arnold's book a minimum of 16 sets per body part. So you think you no more than professionals and 8 sets per body part is enough?
Also, probably no more about A&P than you considering the numerous classes I've taken on it. Nice try though talking like to know.

First off you do not know shit, it is clear in your picture you posted as well as the diet you posted and the routine you posted. Also "know" is spelled K-N-O-W, I understand this is an internet forum but it makes you sound extremely ignorant. Obviously that book has done very little for your physique, it most likely serves a better purpose being a coaster. If you want to actually make the most of this community and the wealth of knowledge it has; you are definitely going to have to check you attitude at the door. I do not give a shit what classes you claim to attend or what you think you know. Bottom line is that you came here for advice, I have given you very very solid advice. In fact I basically gave you a whole training and diet regimen to get you started for at least 5 months, the aforementioned advice would have put a decent sized dent in your wallet if you went to a personal trainer. So go ahead and clean the sand out of your vagina, wipe the tears off your eyes and get back out there and show me what you got.

[nangwalt]

No sand anywhere, but if you're going to give advice be constructive with it and back it up with some reasonable knowledge base. Everyone else but you has been very constuctive and the advice they have given is proven and common knowledge ie a push-pull routine. I have never heard anyone give the advice of 8 sets per body part once a week, way to little. But I will show you give me a month or two and were see where I'm at. Don't get so hurt when someone questions what you say because you're not backing it up, can't believe everything you read.

[xvvfacevvx]

So you didn't read my very first post in this thread about diet/training, cause if you did and you dont consider that to be constructive then fuck me running I dont know how much more anyone could help. Go ahead and scroll up on this page and re-read everything. Also, there are some great program where you are only doing 3 sets per body part weekly and people make amazing gains....here is a chief example of what im talking about this program listed below is set-up by BIG A (He is the resident pro BB in these parts, a 250+lb mass monster)

The following is a great training program that I
recomend:

Mon - Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
* Incline press - warm-up sets, 1 work set
* Flat flyes - 1 work set
* Millitary press - 1 warm-up, 1 work set
* Lateral flyes - 1 work set
* Rear delt machine - 1 work set
* Tricep pushdowns - 1 warm-up, 1 work set
* Lying tricep extensions - 1 work-set

Wed - Quads, Hams, Calves
* Squats - warm-ups, 1 work set
* Leg press - work set
* Leg extension - work set
* Leg curl - warm-up, work set
* Stiff leg deadlift - work set
* Standing calf raise - work set

Fri - Abs, Back, Bis
* Rope crunches - warm up, work set
* Lat pull down - warm-ups, work set
* Deadlift - warm-up, work set
* Bent-over rows - work set
* Shrugs - work set
* Standing BB curls - warm up, work set
* Concentration curl - work set

[drob29]

nangwalt, re read what xvvfacevvx posted. He took a chunk of time there and its on point. If you ever are in a position like he is, and you have a good idea of what your doing and you begin to offer advice, you to will go WFT when a newbie posts like you did. DROP THE ATTITUDE, you have no idea what your doing work out and diet wise. And if you think "fuck that I took classes and read books", scroll up to your picture. You happy with that? Enough said.

xvvfacevvx, great information in those posts. :cool:.

And regarding the pissing contest in the past few posts, nangwalt your soaked bro. Like I said take a step back and man up, yeah it sucks but to get real help and advice you needed to back off. and take an honest look at where your at. Re read xvvfacevvx posts re: work out and diet. Its all right there, take it.

[swimfan30]

You should be saying thanx instead of giving off some attitude!

[Jello]

Actually according to Arnold's book a minimum of 16 sets per body part. So you think you no more than professionals and 8 sets per body part is enough?
Also, probably no more about A&P than you considering the numerous classes I've taken on it. Nice try though talking like to know.

Arnold trained the way he did after the base was built.

If you try training like that with that many sets and actually put in the work with heavy weights you will burn yourself out and not be able to build anything. I still don't do more than 4 sets and usually only 3 unless I feel like I have more in the tank, which with the exception of legs almost never happens.

Face gave you very solid advice and you should look at it again and give it a shot.

[Mattman79]

Some great advice in this thread, I've read so much the last couple of months not only here but other forums and websites, and I can't believe how much great info has been given to one newbie with an attitude !

To me it's obvious that over training will inhibit gains, some people seem to think they start lifiting, spend 2 hours per body part twice a week and wonder why they don't get anywhere. Combine that with a poor diet like this dude posts up originally and you can see why he's struggling.

For me there is too many shakes and not enough real food in the diet, no green veg or fruit, no essential fatty acids, no deadlifts in the back routine and generally far too many exercises to be doing per session. Keep it simple and give your body time to recover, compound movements and a few isolation including tri's/bi's and abs. Lots of rest and sleep !

Could do with a calorie deficit too for a month or so and some cardio, lose some of that bodyfat. It's working for me and can for you too, if you take some of the advice given on this thread.

Just my 2 pennies .....