AAS vs GH

[AlwaysBanned]

I have always been interested in trying a cycle of GH. I have a China source for blue tops, but I do not have the money to throw down at the moment.

For those of you who have run GH...what is it like? Is it comparable to the feeling you get with say--testosterone? The pump? The sides? Aggression? Being Hyper? Does it shut you down the same way?

I am ignorant to GH and what it is like to be on growth hormone.

Can some of yall who have used GH chime in and let me know what your experience was like? I know Mr Devious is running some and Jello also has run GH, but I would like feedback from anyone with experience please...

[MRDevious]

I have always been interested in trying a cycle of GH. I have a China source for blue tops, but I do not have the money to throw down at the moment.

For those of you who have run GH...what is it like? Is it comparable to the feeling you get with say--testosterone? The pump? The sides? Aggression? Being Hyper? Does it shut you down the same way?

I am ignorant to GH and what it is like to be on growth hormone.

Can some of yall who have used GH chime in and let me know what your experience was like? I know Mr Devious is running some and Jello also has run GH, but I would like feedback from anyone with experience please...

What are you trying to say? That I don't have experience? Jerk! J/K...hehehe :) I've only ran it for a month, i want to run it for at least 6 ....then i'll know....sorry I can't help much.

[AlwaysBanned]

Haha naw, I was counting on feedback from both Jello and you is what I was saying! I know you are on your first go round with GH so that's cool bro...I just want to know what it feels like and whether the gains are better or different or what...

[Jello]

I think what I liked most is that I didn't gain nearly as much fat as I would have while I was on my SEE FOOD diet. I would not consider running it by itself except for about a month leading into a cycle. I'll use it again down the road, but the majority of my money will go to AAS.

[Mr. Intensity]

Last year I did my first run with GH for 8 months at a lower dosage of 4ius per day. I mainly used GH for it's fat burning effects as well as to test the theory of GH and it's effects on collagen synthesis. As you and many others here know, I suffered a horrible knee injury in 2007 which resulted in 4 reconstructive knee surgeries. All of the ligaments in my knee have been graphed using codaver tissue, hamstring was torn in half, tore my IT band, and tore my popiteal tendon. The injury has resulted in chronic pain/stiffness and a lack of cartilage. A knee replacement is the next step, as my surgeon says that nothing more can be done. Anyway, I really wanted to test out how GH could possibly benefit me. Between the 3rd and 4th month, I began to experience an extra boost in fat loss without any changes in my normal diet and workout/cardio routine. I also noticed a significant decrease in the pain/stiffness in my knee, and the other joints were notably more lubricated. The most remarkable effect I noticed from my GH cycle was the improvement of the range of motion in my knee. The range of motion in a normal functioning knee is around 130 degrees. Prior to my GH cycle, my range of motion was around 95 degrees of flection. Between months 3-8 on GH, my range of motion increased to around 105-110 degrees, which I've been able to maintain. While 105-110 degrees is still not a fully functioning knee, it's definately a noteworthy improvement. It is possible that the extra range of motion came from constant physical therapy excersises, but that was a significant improvement in a short period of time.

As far as comparing GH to AAS, there really is no comparison (from my experience) as far as growth, strength, and pumps. I did experience some growth and strength gains, but not nearly as much as I experience from an AAS cycle. I honestly can't comment on how GH would compare to AAS at a higher dosage, but I'm definately curious to see how other members who have used GH at higher dosages would compare. The only down side to GH (from my experience) would be how it could sometimes actually cause stiffness or numbness in my joints (particularly in my fingers and hands). With the price of GH going down as I have seen it do over the last year or so, it is definately something to consider depending on what you want to get out of it. I will definately use GH again in the near future.

[Mr. Intensity]

I also forgot to mention that I did an AAS cycle for the last couple of months, following a similar protocal to the one described in the sticky that discusses collagen synthesis in the AAS forum. I used Test C at 250mg/wk wks 1-14, EQ at 400mg/wk wks 1-12, and Var at 40mg/ed wks 6-13. This cycle along with the GH was probably the best cycle that I have ever done.

[AlwaysBanned]

Thanks Jello and Mr Intensity for your feedback.

It's interesting to hear of your injury and the way GH helped you recover, Mr Intensity. So the general consensus is that GH is best used in combination with AAS.

I know Sly Stallone uses GH and he is buff as all hell for an older guy. I was actually considering using GH alone, but after reading y'alls posts, I might do what Jello suggested and start using blue tops for 4-6 weeks and then begin an AAS cycle at that point.

Let me throw a few more questions at yaz...

How long did it take for you to notice any effect from the GH?

Did y'all inject sub-q or intramuscular?

5 days on/2 off or ed?

I have heard that you need to run GH a minimum of 4 months but it is best to run it 6 months? Is this correct?

A kit consists of ten vials with 10iu in each vial, correct?

Each vial needs to be mixed with bacteriostatic water which should come with the kits?

What size and gauge slin pins are best to use?

I have a tax refund coming up so I am planning on getting some kits. I just want to make sure I have all necessary info to be well-informed on my purchase.

Help me out, fellas...

[Jello]

Thanks Jello and Mr Intensity for your feedback.

It's interesting to hear of your injury and the way GH helped you recover, Mr Intensity. So the general consensus is that GH is best used in combination with AAS.

I know Sly Stallone uses GH and he is buff as all hell for an older guy. I was actually considering using GH alone, but after reading y'alls posts, I might do what Jello suggested and start using blue tops for 4-6 weeks and then begin an AAS cycle at that point.

Let me throw a few more questions at yaz...

How long did it take for you to notice any effect from the GH?

Started to notice it about a month in, that's why I say to wait until then to start an AAS cycle.

Did y'all inject sub-q or intramuscular?

Both.

5 days on/2 off or ed?

5 days on/2 off.

I have heard that you need to run GH a minimum of 4 months but it is best to run it 6 months? Is this correct?

It really starts to show it's benefits around the 4th month. I ran it for 6 moths and would have liked to run it for a year straight.

A kit consists of ten vials with 10iu in each vial, correct?

Yes.

Each vial needs to be mixed with bacteriostatic water which should come with the kits?

No, it doesn't come with the water.

What size and gauge slin pins are best to use?

29g 1/2"

I have a tax refund coming up so I am planning on getting some kits. I just want to make sure I have all necessary info to be well-informed on my purchase.

Help me out, fellas...

Good luck Bro.

[Alin]

I have always been interested in trying a cycle of GH. I have a China source for blue tops, but I do not have the money to throw down at the moment.

For those of you who have run GH...what is it like? Is it comparable to the feeling you get with say--testosterone? The pump? The sides? Aggression? Being Hyper? Does it shut you down the same way?

I am ignorant to GH and what it is like to be on growth hormone.

Can some of yall who have used GH chime in and let me know what your experience was like? I know Mr Devious is running some and Jello also has run GH, but I would like feedback from anyone with experience please...

Definitely effective,,,but for the more advanced athlete. At this point your going to get much better gains with a solid AAS cycle than HGH. You should research the topic through searches and googles to understand it better. It's no magic bullett,,but definitely some arsenal for an athlete if used correctly.

[AlwaysBanned]

Much appreciated Jello and Alin

[Mr. Intensity]

Thanks Jello and Mr Intensity for your feedback.

It's interesting to hear of your injury and the way GH helped you recover, Mr Intensity. So the general consensus is that GH is best used in combination with AAS.

I know Sly Stallone uses GH and he is buff as all hell for an older guy. I was actually considering using GH alone, but after reading y'alls posts, I might do what Jello suggested and start using blue tops for 4-6 weeks and then begin an AAS cycle at that point.

Let me throw a few more questions at yaz...

How long did it take for you to notice any effect from the GH?

Did y'all inject sub-q or intramuscular?

5 days on/2 off or ed?

I have heard that you need to run GH a minimum of 4 months but it is best to run it 6 months? Is this correct?

A kit consists of ten vials with 10iu in each vial, correct?

Each vial needs to be mixed with bacteriostatic water which should come with the kits?

What size and gauge slin pins are best to use?

I have a tax refund coming up so I am planning on getting some kits. I just want to make sure I have all necessary info to be well-informed on my purchase.

Help me out, fellas...

Sub Q or IM injects: GH uses water as its carrier and enters your system quickly, so either way will work; however, some people believe that Sub Q can provide localized fat loss, but I honestly don't know if there is solid evidence to back that up.

Dosage and Protocal: There are a lot of different and conflicting opinions over this matter, but I think it all depends on your goal with GH. For fat loss, IMO GH needs to be injected every day, and I DID NOT notice a difference in splitting the dosages up into am/pm injections. I'm not saying that Jello is wrong with the 5on 2off protocal, because people have gotten great results for years using GH like this, but I have also read and talked to experienced users who claim that there really is no benefit from this protocal over others, and that it was mainly used to save on the cost of GH, which has decreased. Again, not saying Jello is wrong, just stating what I have gathered from research. I personally have not tried it, but again I have read and talked to users who claim that every 3rd day at higher dosages is the best route for muscle growth, because it shocks the body into growing. Like I said, there are a lot of different opinions and protocals regarding GH, but I have only used the every day method so I can't personally vouch for any of the other mentioned protocals.

Length of Cycle: I personally wouldn't go any less than 6 months because as I stated earlier, and Jello stated as well, results aren't really noticeable until around the 4th month.

Kits: Your generics won't come with bac water, but that can be purchased the same place you get pins for really cheap. The blue tops that I had were kits of 10 10iu vials. Not all GH brands are 10iu vials though, infact I have green tops now that come in 8iu vials. I started with blue tops last year, but ended with 2 kits of green tops. I personally think the green tops were a little stronger, but that obviously depends on the trust you have in the your source.

Pins: 29g 1/2 slin pins


I did a lot of research on GH before I started my first cycle, and the information above is some of the basic stuff that I came up with. Like I said above, you are going to here a ton of different protocals with GH...so I'm not going to say that any 1 protocal that has been mentioned is wrong. Good luck to you AB, and let me know if I can help you at all.

[dudcki27]

Not to rain on your gh parade AB but didn't you start that other thread asking when is the economy is going to get better? Then you stated that you could not find any work at all no matter how hard you looked. And then I read you are getting a tax refund and are going to spend probably $700-$800 on gh, needles, and bac water. Man I'm not judging you at all but you should have your priorities a little bit more in line. And I don't think you are at the point in your body building to really benefit from gh. Most guys use it to reach the next level and are pretty big when they try gh for the first time.
Just something to think about exspecialy with a baby on the way. Good luck with wich ever road you choose.

[AlwaysBanned]

I landed a job working for my father-in-law in the oilfields. He said if I don't keep up out there, he won't keep me on, but I am going to try my hardest to pick up on things and excel. So...I have a steady income for now. Otherwise, I would never consider putting my tax money towards muscle growth:rolleyes:

[AlwaysBanned]

Sub Q or IM injects: GH uses water as its carrier and enters your system quickly, so either way will work; however, some people believe that Sub Q can provide localized fat loss, but I honestly don't know if there is solid evidence to back that up.

Dosage and Protocal: There are a lot of different and conflicting opinions over this matter, but I think it all depends on your goal with GH. For fat loss, IMO GH needs to be injected every day, and I DID NOT notice a difference in splitting the dosages up into am/pm injections. I'm not saying that Jello is wrong with the 5on 2off protocal, because people have gotten great results for years using GH like this, but I have also read and talked to experienced users who claim that there really is no benefit from this protocal over others, and that it was mainly used to save on the cost of GH, which has decreased. Again, not saying Jello is wrong, just stating what I have gathered from research. I personally have not tried it, but again I have read and talked to users who claim that every 3rd day at higher dosages is the best route for muscle growth, because it shocks the body into growing. Like I said, there are a lot of different opinions and protocals regarding GH, but I have only used the every day method so I can't personally vouch for any of the other mentioned protocals.

Length of Cycle: I personally wouldn't go any less than 6 months because as I stated earlier, and Jello stated as well, results aren't really noticeable until around the 4th month.

Kits: Your generics won't come with bac water, but that can be purchased the same place you get pins for really cheap. The blue tops that I had were kits of 10 10iu vials. Not all GH brands are 10iu vials though, infact I have green tops now that come in 8iu vials. I started with blue tops last year, but ended with 2 kits of green tops. I personally think the green tops were a little stronger, but that obviously depends on the trust you have in the your source.

Pins: 29g 1/2 slin pins


I did a lot of research on GH before I started my first cycle, and the information above is some of the basic stuff that I came up with. Like I said above, you are going to here a ton of different protocals with GH...so I'm not going to say that any 1 protocal that has been mentioned is wrong. Good luck to you AB, and let me know if I can help you at all.

Mr Intensity--

I truly appreciate your feedback. I have decided to inject sub-q into my belly fat 5 days on/2 off for the sake of saving a little $$.

My source sent me a lot of information about R-HGH including a Certificate of Analysis for his product along with a general information faq...his vials are indeed 10iu per vial and 10 vials per kit.

I just have a couple more questions...

Once mixed with bacteriostatic water, does the vial need to be refridgerated? Or since it will only last 2 1/2 days...can I keep it in my medicine cabinet dark at room temperature?

How do I measure an iu in my insulin syringe? I remember mixing and injecting hcg several years back, but a lot has happened since then so it's kinda fuzzy.

Aren't there different insulin syringes stats besides gauge and length? For example, isn't there a insulin syringe that will hold a 1/2ml when it is full and one that will hold 1ml when it is full? Or am I completely off base here? I just go to the Wal Mart pharmacy and ask for 29gauge 1/2"length insulin syringes? (and tell them I am a diabetic, of course :D)

Like I said, I dealt with the iu measuring system with hcg but that was years ago and I remember being confused for a while.

Sorry for all these ??? but I am a complete newb to the GH game. You and Jello have been very helpful.

[ojs]

There are 10iu's in the vial. You can mix it anyway you want. But the more water you put in it the easier it is to get an accurate draw.

I would put 2ml in it. That way you draw it to the 2 on an insulin syringe to get 1iu, draw it to the 6 to get 3iu's, etc. That cuts the dosage error in half.

(*refrigerate after mixing.)

I've been on Hgh for nearly 12 years.

[AlwaysBanned]

There are 10iu's in the vial. You can mix it anyway you want. But the more water you put in it the easier it is to get an accurate draw.

I would put 2ml in it. That way you draw it to the 2 on an insulin syringe to get 1iu, draw it to the 6 to get 3iu's, etc. That cuts the dosage error in half.

(*refrigerate after mixing.)

I've been on Hgh for nearly 12 years.

Ok, so if I mix 2ml bacteriostatic water in a 10iu vial, that would mean I draw out to an 8 on the insulin syringe to equal 4iu, which will be my daily dosage, correct?

[MRDevious]

Ok, so if I mix 2ml bacteriostatic water in a 10iu vial, that would mean I draw out to an 8 on the insulin syringe to equal 4iu, which will be my daily dosage, correct?

Correct. A slin syringe has 10iu's in it (1ML). So each line to the '10' is 1iu.

[AlwaysBanned]

Correct. A slin syringe has 10iu's in it (1ML). So each line to the '10' is 1iu.

Thanks. This clears that up for me.

[ojs]

Ok, so if I mix 2ml bacteriostatic water in a 10iu vial, that would mean I draw out to an 8 on the insulin syringe to equal 4iu, which will be my daily dosage, correct?
MRDevious is Correct! I'm just chiming in behind him so you don't feel I'm neglecting you. Write down what ever you put in it so in a drunken stupor you can still get inject dosage right. :D:D:D:D:D


PS: *if it were me I'd do 1iu for a week. Then 2iu's for a week, etc, etc until you get to your desired dosage. You're body is very stubborn about using exogenous Hgh. So if you start high you'll be pissing out a lot of expensive water.

[AlwaysBanned]

Thanks to everyone who helped me in this thread. If I have any more questions I will be sure to ask since this board is so helpful.

It will be a few weeks before I start the GH and AAS combo...possibly a couple months since I am in the middle of a prop and mast run right now and need to take adequate time off.

I just wanted to get the 411 ahead of time.

My plan is to run R-HGH for 6 months. I will lead it in 1iu the first week then 2 iu the second week until I get to 4iu and stick with that. (Thanks OJ) One month in, I will begin a Test Cyp/Equipoise 14 week cycle with a dbol kick start. I will be sure to start a log of my experience. For now...its masteron and prop for six weeks.

God I love hormonal therapy:D:D:D

[panther#1]

There are 10iu's in the vial. You can mix it anyway you want. But the more water you put in it the easier it is to get an accurate draw.

I would put 2ml in it. That way you draw it to the 2 on an insulin syringe to get 1iu, draw it to the 6 to get 3iu's, etc. That cuts the dosage error in half.

(*refrigerate after mixing.)

I've been on Hgh for nearly 12 years.

Question ojs: After a dozen years on Hgh, what do you see as the pro's versus the cons. Clearly looking at your photo, you look fit and youthfull. Besides cost, have you found any downsides?

[ojs]

Question ojs: After a dozen years on Hgh, what do you see as the pro's versus the cons. Clearly looking at your photo, you look fit and youthfull. Besides cost, have you found any downsides?
I didn't see any downside using US Pharma grade Hgh and keeping to clinical dosages (5-18iu / week). I did 1-2IU/day 5on/2off most of the 12 years. It takes the edge off of every kind of ache and pain you start to feel as you get older. For you young guys I don't see any purpose.

The only times I've had any sides were when I was using higher dosages for BB purposes. Typically in the 5-10IU per day range. Areas of concern for me were increased sugar sensitivity, blood pressure going up, thyroid slowing down and joint pains. Once I lower the dosages they go away.

[Steelman213]

I didn't see any downside using US Pharma grade Hgh and keeping to clinical dosages (5-18iu / week). I did 1-2IU/day 5on/2off most of the 12 years. It takes the edge off of every kind of ache and pain you start to feel as you get older. For you young guys I don't see any purpose.

The only times I've had any sides were when I was using higher dosages for BB purposes. Typically in the 5-10IU per day range. Areas of concern for me were increased sugar sensitivity, blood pressure going up, thyroid slowing down and joint pains. Once I lower the dosages they go away.

Really? Isn't HGH supposed to be quite helpful in mass gains when used in conjunction with AAS?

This is something I would really like to know, because I was thinking of purchasing some....but if it's only gonna help keep fat off and help with pains/aches i may just put that money elsewhere.

[ojs]

Really? Isn't HGH supposed to be quite helpful in mass gains when used in conjunction with AAS?

This is something I would really like to know, because I was thinking of purchasing some....but if it's only gonna help keep fat off and help with pains/aches i may just put that money elsewhere.

For gains in mass?? You'll need to be over 8IU's a day. That's the minimum for that purpose in my opinion. So 10 is better. 15 is even better. Have fun.

[DTownDandy]

AB, no offense but this is fucking retarded to even be considering.

Wasn't it you , that not to long ago, posted a thread about how broke you are and that you can't find work around your hometown? And you didnt want to relocate for some odd reason. Dont you have a kid on the way? You are really going to spend your tax money on GH/AAS when you can;t even get decent gains off of a simple cycle? And not to mention you're unemployed and fucking BROKE!!!

Bro, no offense but you need to get your head out of your ass and get some priorities in your life. Save that fucking loot and spend it on your CHILD!

GH is the last fucking thing you need bro. You seem to have the mentality of a 12 year old right now...its time to come back to reality and enter the real world brother.

[DTownDandy]

Not to rain on your gh parade AB but didn't you start that other thread asking when is the economy is going to get better? Then you stated that you could not find any work at all no matter how hard you looked. And then I read you are getting a tax refund and are going to spend probably $700-$800 on gh, needles, and bac water. Man I'm not judging you at all but you should have your priorities a little bit more in line. And I don't think you are at the point in your body building to really benefit from gh. Most guys use it to reach the next level and are pretty big when they try gh for the first time.
Just something to think about exspecialy with a baby on the way. Good luck with wich ever road you choose.

I didnt see your post Dudcki, but I totally agree.

[AlwaysBanned]

D town--I am employed in the oilfields full time now. I stated this earlier in the thread, but you must have not read it.

I would never consider buying GH if I didn't have a job.

[DTownDandy]

D town--I am employed in the oilfields full time now. I stated this earlier in the thread, but you must have not read it.

I would never consider buying GH if I didn't have a job.

AB, you're an alright dude. I have 0 problems with you.

But what I mentioned is looking at a "bigger" picture here.
Just because you have a job doesnt mean you need to spend your money on GH. I think there are many other things you need to financially cover before you think about AAS, let alone HGH. You have to set some priorities, starting with that shorty you're about to have. Thats #1 bro, ALWAYS.

I know you can do what you want with your hard earned money and you're totally right. But c'mon and lets be serious and real. You've done enough cycles and enough reading to know you can talk the talk, but you're not walking the walk. The best thing you could have done was stuck with Panther 6 months ago GEAR FREE. I truly wanted you to succeed and transform yourself, for yourself. I think if you're serious into bodybuilding as you say you are, I wouldn;t spend that money on GH, if i had to absolutely spend it on something related to bodybuilding, it would be a trainer/dietician.


There has to be a point where you gotta call quits on something.

This is your chance bro, especially with having a kid on the way. You ahve A LOT riding on this, you cant afford any setbacks. If you cant grow for whatever reason, why even waste the money? Its like you're going through the process of taking AAS but psychologically you're fucked from the get-go. Or you just have really bad luck.

Again, I mean no dis-respect, but it's time to follow through if you are truly serious about this.

Peace bro.

[DTownDandy]

I didn't mean to hi-jack this thread either, sorry about that.

Good info here.

[Mr. Intensity]

Mr Intensity--

I truly appreciate your feedback. I have decided to inject sub-q into my belly fat 5 days on/2 off for the sake of saving a little $$.

My source sent me a lot of information about R-HGH including a Certificate of Analysis for his product along with a general information faq...his vials are indeed 10iu per vial and 10 vials per kit.

I just have a couple more questions...

Once mixed with bacteriostatic water, does the vial need to be refridgerated? Or since it will only last 2 1/2 days...can I keep it in my medicine cabinet dark at room temperature?

How do I measure an iu in my insulin syringe? I remember mixing and injecting hcg several years back, but a lot has happened since then so it's kinda fuzzy.

Aren't there different insulin syringes stats besides gauge and length? For example, isn't there a insulin syringe that will hold a 1/2ml when it is full and one that will hold 1ml when it is full? Or am I completely off base here? I just go to the Wal Mart pharmacy and ask for 29gauge 1/2"length insulin syringes? (and tell them I am a diabetic, of course :D)

Like I said, I dealt with the iu measuring system with hcg but that was years ago and I remember being confused for a while.

Sorry for all these ??? but I am a complete newb to the GH game. You and Jello have been very helpful.

No problem AB...and sorry I didn't get back to you earlier, but it looks like Ojs and others have pretty much answered your other questions. Let me know if you need any help.

Really? Isn't HGH supposed to be quite helpful in mass gains when used in conjunction with AAS?

if it's only gonna help keep fat off and help with pains/aches i may just put that money elsewhere.

I know Ojs answered your question and is absolutely correct, but if you would have read my earlier post you wouldn't have asked this question. I said that "MY GOALS" were for fat loss and joints, which is why I said I was using a lower dosage (4iu/ed). I also wouldn't call my injury "aches and pains"! Obviously, GH at higher dosages like the ones Ojs recommended are best for mass...but mass wasn't my goal when I did my GH cycle. I was testing a theory, which from my results I truly believe is plausible. Just a little advice...READ THE ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE POSTING!

[AlwaysBanned]

AB, you're an alright dude. I have 0 problems with you.

But what I mentioned is looking at a "bigger" picture here.
Just because you have a job doesnt mean you need to spend your money on GH. I think there are many other things you need to financially cover before you think about AAS, let alone HGH. You have to set some priorities, starting with that shorty you're about to have. Thats #1 bro, ALWAYS.

I know you can do what you want with your hard earned money and you're totally right. But c'mon and lets be serious and real. You've done enough cycles and enough reading to know you can talk the talk, but you're not walking the walk. The best thing you could have done was stuck with Panther 6 months ago GEAR FREE. I truly wanted you to succeed and transform yourself, for yourself. I think if you're serious into bodybuilding as you say you are, I wouldn;t spend that money on GH, if i had to absolutely spend it on something related to bodybuilding, it would be a trainer/dietician.


There has to be a point where you gotta call quits on something.

This is your chance bro, especially with having a kid on the way. You ahve A LOT riding on this, you cant afford any setbacks. If you cant grow for whatever reason, why even waste the money? Its like you're going through the process of taking AAS but psychologically you're fucked from the get-go. Or you just have really bad luck.

Again, I mean no dis-respect, but it's time to follow through if you are truly serious about this.

Peace bro.

You know what, bro, you are right...and I want to thank you for having the balls to throw that in my face. Seriously.

I need to learn how to grow before I jump into something like GH, otherwise it's going to be a waste.

Plus, I do have mad expenses right now that I need to handle, including preparing for my first child. So, I have decided to hold off on the expensive GH purchase and pay off some credit cards with the $$ instead.

An inner voice was telling me all the same things you were, but the selfish asshole inside me just wanted more grow juice, like it's a magic pill...

I have 20ml eq stashed and I'm having some test cyp sent to me via a home brewer, so I have another cycle already saved up at zero cost to myself...I think Ill just stick with that down the road and try to find what works for me in the meantime.

The truth is, I want to GROW damnit! I find myself hitting walls in the gym and losing motivation.

I quit smoking pot for the benefit of my family. I don't want my baby to have a stoner daddy. Well, a pre-workout toke used to give me HUGE motivation in the gym. I know that sounds retarded, but when I was high, I really would work so hard until sweat dripped down my face and onto the floor. (Edit if necessary, Jello)

I am trying to live as healthy as I can right now, I am on a light cycle of 50mg mast/50mg prop eod, I am eating plenty of protein, and hitting the gym eod. I really wish I lived near one of you 220+lb alinboard bros who could train with me and show me what I am doing wrong. I am stuck at 195 with a bodyfat% that could be lower, and I am just not gaining.

Both Panther and Ironfreak have laid out routines for me that they think will help me grow, and I am going to go back and read what they have wrote and try to revamp my workout.

I could type a novel here, but I gotta get to work, but thanks for giving me a wake up slap, homie...I will keep y'all updated:)

[panther#1]

AB, Don't complicate things too much. 90% of growth is done with a fork and knife. As for training, Either Ironfreak or my own templates will do fine. If time is a major challange, use the 3 a week program that we revamped or Ironfreaks powerlifting template or try 6 weeks on one and move on to the other. The big thing is be consistant and make sure the numbers on the bar and the calories on your plate go up little by little. In a while you will see the difference.

Like you said yourself there is no magic pill out there. Just hard work in this lifetime gets you over the hump. Best of Luck, Panther

[zznwhs]

AB...I just want to compliment you on using some common sense. I know I bashed you a bit in the other thread, but I was just basically trying to light a fire under your ass and get you motivated. Get your head on straight, get your priorities in line, and stay that way. The size and strength you want can be yours if you really want it. Realize this though...in order to get where you want as far as strength and size goes, you are going to have to deal with alot of physical pain. Everyone here that has gotten big and strong has had to deal with it. Make friends with the pain and learn to work through it so that you can also lead your daily life in a productive manner. If you can do this.....you will get to where you want to be eventually.

[Mr. Intensity]

AB, Don't complicate things too much. 90% of growth is done with a fork and knife. As for training, Either Ironfreak or my own templates will do fine. If time is a major challange, use the 3 a week program that we revamped or Ironfreaks powerlifting template or try 6 weeks on one and move on to the other. The big thing is be consistant and make sure the numbers on the bar and the calories on your plate go up little by little. In a while you will see the difference.

Like you said yourself there is no magic pill out there. Just hard work in this lifetime gets you over the hump. Best of Luck, Panther

Excellent advice Panther! Also AB, a great workout partner that pushes you in the gym will help get through walls. You probably already know, but I have had the pleasure of being able to train with IF83 in the past. Training with him helped me push through a lot of barriers and most of my PR's are because of his advice and the training sessions with him. Right now since I've moved, I don't have a training partner to push me, and trust me I'm missing it. Keep your head up brother!