classic ectomorph: good first cycle?

[inflames84]

hey everyone,

just joined the forums, i'm a classic ectomorph/hardgainer. i'm looking into doing a cycle. here are my stats:

age: 25
height: 5' 11" (armspan is 6'1" more proof of being an ectomorph lol)

weight: 165
b/f: 7-%?
goals: 175-180


i've been working out since i was 16, i started at 97 pounds :o

was also very active in martial arts (4+ days a week, 2+ hours each class)
from when i was 16 till i was 21.

i have taken a break from martial arts for the last few years, and focused more on lifting, i lift hard, rest 2 days, workout again. that got me from 145 to 165, but i just cant get past 165. i have great definition, i have the look of a bodybuilder as far as my build, just in a much smaller size. :( biceps are 14.5" chest is 45" waist is 29.5"

i eat 5000 + calories a day, 200+ grams of protein, lots of lean meats, fish, eggs/egg whites, vegetables/fruit, plus protein shakes and protein bars in between the other meals/after workouts, createin, multi's, emzynes, niacin, no2, etc.

i want to run a cycle that will help me pack on 10-15 pounds of lean muscle, but i still want to maintain my endurance and agility. i have been thinking something with eq and anavar, i know test would be good just to keep test levels up, but i really dont want to get puffy, or put on water weight, or have to deal with stronger sides.

if its really needed maybe just like 250mg a week (test e) just to keep things floating. i was also thinking of jumpstarting the cycle with a few weeks of turinabol, i figured it would be a good alternative to dbol, with less sides and less water weight.

i dont want people at work to notice too much, i'll be wearing baggier clothes so any weight gain will be not as noticable.

as far as pct, i'm thinking nolvadex, i've heared of more mood swings on clomid.

now as far as a good dosage, i've read alot on it and have a pretty good i dea as far as what is the norm, HOWEVER: i'm a little worried that due to my low bodyweight, normal cycle dosing might be a little on the high side?

i was thinking something like: weeks 1-16: eq 300mg? wk
(possibly) weeks 1-16: test eq 250mg wk
weeks 1-3-4: turinabol 30mg ed
weeks 8-16: anavar 30mg ed

would that be not enough? or would 400mg eq and 40-50mg ed for ot and var be ok?
i'm open to sugestions/ideas, even diet suggestions, even though honestly i really dont think i can eat more, i dont think i can fit more in lol!

i have been telling myself since i was 21, "just hold on, give it a few more years and you get bigger" i'm gonna be 26 this summer and i've maybe put on 3 pounds of muscle in the last 2 years, and i'm just getting real tired of not getting anywhere.

[shadey]

Hey mate ,im in a similar boat but also alot different while im also about to start my first cycle in the coming months the only things i would personally change is run the test at around 450mg and if your worried about the bloat run arimidex 0.25 eod.
Also if your consuming around 5000+ calories a day you should try getting more protein then 200g ,at 165lbs try for 350g+ of protein i found helped alot more.
As i say im not yet an expert but maybe some exp blokes can throw something in .

[ojs]

I think a first cycle of 300mg/wk for 12 weeks would be perfect. But the problem is really going to be your food.

You can't make muscle without extra food or the only thing you'll gain is water weight. And if 5000cal /day is maintenance now, then you'll need to eat at least 6000-7000cal a day to put any size on. And at least 250-300g of it need to be protein while on cycle. I would add tons of brown rice, yams, barley and/or oatmeal.

But no matter how you look at it, you'll need to be able to gain weight before you can even think of starting a cycle. Otherwise it's just too soon. And you'll just have to sit tight and wait for your metabolism to slow down.

[smallone]

^^Bump OJS.

Im about your size now and I dont eat anywhere near what you do and I am gaining weight natty. I eat about 3,000 calories a day and only get about 150-160 g protein a day. Someday less and other a ton more.

I dont eat fruit. Vegetables yes. Well I will eat bananas if I get cramps but it is just sugar calories. All I eat is whole grains. Oatmeal, brown rice, whole wheat bread. If you can eat a peice of fruit you can eat some oatmeal and a couple eggs.

I quit eating lean and added extra virgin olive oil to my food. Not a lot maybe a couple teaspoons over a day. He isn't around here anymore but a member sammarbella told me point blank to stop taking protein shakes and bars except after working out because my metabolism just burn up the processed food. Same as above with the fruit he said whole food is better. I know when I use shakes all the time my shit smells horrible, is lose and I have gas. I went to whole eggs, whole milk, not fatty meat but I didnt/dont eat lean. Just avoid saturated fats like in fast food.

I had my cholesterol checked when I was eating about 8-12 whole eggs a day. My LDL was on the high side of normal but my HDL was twice the high level. Doctor said he wasn't worried since I was physically active.

Anyway I did the cycle in my sig and got to where you want to be. Short and sweet I get the best results from whole food and more good fats in my diet.

Can we get a pic? We are close to the same size and I would love the comparison.

[NotEnoughWeights]

remember you have to gain a little fat to gain muscle...so dont worry too much about staying super lean.

At your BF% u will still look lean even if u jump to 10-12%. So if you increase your protein to about 2grams/lb of body weight and eat what OJS said i think u can gain some weight natty.

I know its frustraing cause I was there too...I got to the point where I couldnt gain a pound... I took a break re-thunk my diet and workout routine and from there I gained more wieght before I ever did my first cycle.

[inflames84]

Can we get a pic? We are close to the same size and I would love the comparison.

i dont have any good pics, just a few crappy cell phone ones, here they are. i am flexing but i'm not pumped up, i'd look a little bigger if a was, but i figure you can't have a pump all day, and so this is more realistic.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/andrewsvt03/tn-9-1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/andrewsvt03/tn-8-1.jpg

as far as the diet goes, i'm gonna cut most of the fruit and some of my veggies, and add more eggs, rice, grains, and oats. i wish there was a way i could slow my metabolism down, it would make things alot eaiser!

[superbeast22]

metabolism will slow, mine is still raging as well, but listen bro... try eating more dense food, ojs started me on barley, good shit man

[BGChiefs]

i was always really skinny as well in my teen years..i was always told as long as you lift, everything you eat will turn into muscle...i believed it until i started really getting into bodybuilding and realized all of that was a lie. what i recommend is a ton of what i call "heavy food". if a food is extremely dense, it'll feel heavier than something other than its size. eat a lot of steak, chicken (not fried), yams, sweet potatoes etc. and eat till youre about to puke. do that for about a month and see if that doesnt work, if it doesnt, start a cycle. if it's your first cycle i'd say test only and see how that affects you. you never know, you might gain that 10-15 lbs. as long as you have a solid workout regimen and a good diet, you'll slap that on pretty easily in a 10 or 12 week cycle. My first cycle i ran 500 mg/week of test e for 5 weeks (woulda been longer, long story) and it worked wonders for me. all in all i ended up gaining about 20 lbs and i'm still lean. cant wait to see how it works out :)

[AlwaysBanned]

Test Cypionate at 500mg a week for ten weeks.

[inflames84]

thanks for the sugestions guys, i'm gonna pick up more "dense" food here tomorrow when i go shopping.
also, i've read that for hardgainers the rest period between workouts is very important, is 48 hours enough? i always workout to failure and with strict form, back when i started working out i used to workout every other day, then a few years back i went to two days between workouts. i have tons of energy, so its already hard to wait as long as i am lol, but if it means more growth, i'm up for a longer wait.

[smallone]

We'll see if I get flamed....I didn't/dont mess with test yet as I dont want to get into my nuts shrinking (swales protocol is what I will do) and the seriousness of the PCT, water retention and so on. If I ever want to really go for mass I will but I am happy with the solid gains I can get from EQ or as you mentioned using T-bol at the beginning. Remember with all orals they are hard on your liver. Even T-bol thou they say it is mild. Also if you add t-bol to it you can suppress your natural test. If you suppress it more than a little bit you will need to add test.

Seeing how you dont want to lose agility/athleticism and such I vote for an EQ cycle. Everyone here will demand the base of a cycle be test but it isn't like gravity it can be avoided. It was even said on here before someone was amazed at how big people used to get without test.

Technically i did 2 mL of stealth EQ but it is over strength so I got more that 400 mg a week. About 500 I believe. My nuts never shrank, never lost my libido, my dick still worked the whole time and girlfriend said it was bigger, amazing pumps, increased appetite and I gained the weight I wanted. Beyond my own experience I know two people who have run EQ only cycles multiple times and made gains off them every time. No water retention, no shrunkin nuts, no limp dick during or after and no loss of the gains.

For slowing your metabolism...be lazy. Walk slower, walk less, make your girl get on top..haha J/K But really I just tried to compensate with more food. Dense food!!