Interesting thread from Pro Muscle

[DTownDandy]

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/55055-how-did-bodybuilders-keep-gains-before-there-pct.html


So I ask some of the older members of the board. How did guys keep gains before PCT?

[Jello]

My guess would be just eating and training hard. It's just easier with PCT now.

[giff]

my guess is the use of more androgenic steroids rather than anabolic, which imo are easier to keep gains from, tapering, diet and an excellent work ethic

[mrvtwin80]

The only thing I remember taking about 15 years a go was HCG at the end of the cycle and I think again 2 weeks later and also Tribulus.Training, diet and supplements were mainly concentrated on also .The mind set back then was you do a cycle and you expected to retain 10% of your cycle! Next cycle keep another 10% and so on.Now it's just the opposite!

[Stevend083]

Some of this depends on how long you have been training. If you got big and stayed this way for some years then you can come off the supps and retain a good deal of the mass you gained. The recipe for this is the same as putting the mass on in the first place. Eat right (for mass), train right and hard, get rest and you will keep what you worked hard for. The exception would be a newbie that trained for six months, juiced for six months, got as big as a house and then quit juicing!! Most if not all the gains would deminish over time.....why? Because your body was never that big and did not stay that big for long enough. Pct would not save this individual, only time under the iron and on diet would. As for PCT, well it is s myth! I will get fried for this but pct is a waste of time. We did not do it back in the day and many still do not do it.......why? because it does not work. The idea that you can kick start anything by switching to some preparations that are only prescribed to women and this will aid in retaining mass is ludicrous at best. Remember this about PCT, your natural production was suspended by the introduction of artificial hormones into the body. Your body perceives this as overproduction and scales back or shuts down natural production to compensate for the overabundance of hormones. All you are doing by adding PCT at the end is delaying the normal production due to the continued exogenous supply of hormones to your body. When you decided to introduce hormones exogenously to your system...........that was the day you altered your body chemistry for life!! This is my opinion and the truth as I believe it. I am not speaking for anyone else here. PCT at best is a very controversial subject and also open to much speculation. Believe what you will!!

This was someones post I found from that link.. I've been excited to try my pct (nov/clomid/hcg) after my cycle. This will be my third cycle im doing and the first to include PCT.. always lost my gains on the previous two cycles. Thought PCT would be the answer to keep at least some of what I have gained on this cycle.. is PCT a joke or is this guy just wrong?

[DTownDandy]

Some of this depends on how long you have been training. If you got big and stayed this way for some years then you can come off the supps and retain a good deal of the mass you gained. The recipe for this is the same as putting the mass on in the first place. Eat right (for mass), train right and hard, get rest and you will keep what you worked hard for. The exception would be a newbie that trained for six months, juiced for six months, got as big as a house and then quit juicing!! Most if not all the gains would deminish over time.....why? Because your body was never that big and did not stay that big for long enough. Pct would not save this individual, only time under the iron and on diet would. As for PCT, well it is s myth! I will get fried for this but pct is a waste of time. We did not do it back in the day and many still do not do it.......why? because it does not work. The idea that you can kick start anything by switching to some preparations that are only prescribed to women and this will aid in retaining mass is ludicrous at best. Remember this about PCT, your natural production was suspended by the introduction of artificial hormones into the body. Your body perceives this as overproduction and scales back or shuts down natural production to compensate for the overabundance of hormones. All you are doing by adding PCT at the end is delaying the normal production due to the continued exogenous supply of hormones to your body. When you decided to introduce hormones exogenously to your system...........that was the day you altered your body chemistry for life!! This is my opinion and the truth as I believe it. I am not speaking for anyone else here. PCT at best is a very controversial subject and also open to much speculation. Believe what you will!!

This was someones post I found from that link.. I've been excited to try my pct (nov/clomid/hcg) after my cycle. This will be my third cycle im doing and the first to include PCT.. always lost my gains on the previous two cycles. Thought PCT would be the answer to keep at least some of what I have gained on this cycle.. is PCT a joke or is this guy just wrong?




When you come off a cycle, natural test production is zero and the levels of the steroids taken in the blood are diminishing. The body is in a state of catabolism, and, as a result, much of the muscle tissue that was gained on the cycle is now going to be lost.

The AP gland that releases gonadotrophic hormones; which inturn stimulates FSH and LH. Both which stimulate your balls to start producing test and start secreting test again. Comes down to the hpta and the increase of test and blood level concentration.

Clomid reduces the estrogen inhibition caused by the cycle by blocking the estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary, thus reducing the inhibition from the elevated estrogen levels. This allows LH levels to return to normal, or even above normal levels, and in turn, natural testosterone levels also normalise.

To each their own though, I know Im sticking with PCT:cool:

[lostwars]

i believe you cant teach and old dog new tricks,as would seem the case with alot of the lads of at PM, i believe the data and research is far from inclonclusive

im sticking with pct and hgh during that time if i can get it

[countryboyWVU]

I would assume that when your younger, you recover quicker and may not be as effected long term without PCT.

[lostwars]

I would assume that when your younger, you recover quicker and may not be as effected long term without PCT.

agreed everything slows down or the stores become diminished over time as we age, but if you were continuosily doing aas and no pct in youre 20s id reckon it would give you serious problems as you get into late 30s early 40s