5 weeks in, not soo happy.

[xvvfacevvx]

So I awhile back I started my first run with AAS (if want to know stats search "all natty lifter"). Got done with my 4th week and had to quit to due certain reasons. I got back to the states and started my cycle again (Test c 500mg wk 1-10 EQ 400MG 1-8 and turinabol 40mg wk 1-4) this time I "kickstarted" with t-bol which turned out to be a joke. Well 5 weeks in and all stats remain unchanged, just like the first time. I understand that test-c is a long ester, but 5 weeks and an no signs? Even with t-bol! All my gear was provided here at alins. Needless to say Im super fucking frustrated, considering the fact that 5 weeks in and no increase in mass, I have 5 weeks left so I may put on 5 or 6 lbs if the test ever decides to "kick" :rolleyes:. My diet and exercise is fine, I've managed to put on almost 60lbs naturally so I think I know what Im doing in that dep't. Alright let me hear it.

[test250]

Too early to tell if test c & eq are working. Tbol should have done something by now

[xvvfacevvx]

Too early to tell if test c & eq are working. Tbol should have done something by now


The only effects I recieved from t-bol was a noticeablely better pump. No weight gain, no change in body fat.

[test250]

how about strength ?

[xvvfacevvx]

how about strength ?


ahh, nothing to write home about.

[test250]

should have got some decent strength off it at least. when i took it my strength was up every workout

[xSuperJackx]

Are you using BP or stealth? Just curious. Also, have you notice any testicular atrophy? (a sign that your body has recognized the exogenous test). And have you noticed any increase in appetite from the EQ?

[GoonStatus]

So I awhile back I started my first run with AAS (if want to know stats search "all natty lifter"). Got done with my 4th week and had to quit to due certain reasons. I got back to the states and started my cycle again (Test c 500mg wk 1-10 EQ 400MG 1-8 and turinabol 40mg wk 1-4) this time I "kickstarted" with t-bol which turned out to be a joke. Well 5 weeks in and all stats remain unchanged, just like the first time. I understand that test-c is a long ester, but 5 weeks and an no signs? Even with t-bol! All my gear was provided here at alins. Needless to say Im super fucking frustrated, considering the fact that 5 weeks in and no increase in mass, I have 5 weeks left so I may put on 5 or 6 lbs if the test ever decides to "kick" :rolleyes:. My diet and exercise is fine, I've managed to put on almost 60lbs naturally so I think I know what Im doing in that dep't. Alright let me hear it.

What's your diet look like bro?

[superbeast22]

t bol is pathetic, are you logging your workouts bro? also 5 weeks is not too early at all for the cyp to kick in.

[Maysam91]

Hmm I agree with sb, 5 weeks IS NOT too early. however everyone differs.

Something isnt right.

Tbol - Dnt know, never used it. But you should have seen some strength gains.

Test - Yee at 5 weeks, I wouldnt expect a shitload of gains as it only probably kicked in. However I'd expect some water gains at week 5.

EQ - Wouldnt expect much at week 5 at 400mg/w, probably hasn't kicked in and due to its extremely mild potency, and wont be too surprised if it hasn't provided anything until week7ish.

But everyone's body reacts differently.

goodluck

[mrmarcus]

Eq is ok saw some decent gains next time try the tren a to really become the beast u are

[superbeast22]

Eq is ok saw some decent gains next time try the tren a to really become the beast u are

dont recommend tren when hes not getting results with test bro... cmon.

[superbeast22]

Hmm I agree with sb, 5 weeks IS NOT too early. however everyone differs.

Something isnt right.
Exactly.
Tbol - Dnt know, never used it. But you should have seen some strength gains.
From what Ive read, tbol doesnt do much... unless its a decent dosage..
Test - Yee at 5 weeks, I wouldnt expect a shitload of gains as it only probably kicked in. However I'd expect some water gains at week 5.
increase or decrease in libido, change of nut size and semen volume, possible increase in weight from water, maybe higher bp and maybe oily skin or acne...
EQ - Wouldnt expect much at week 5 at 400mg/w, probably hasn't kicked in and due to its extremely mild potency, and wont be too surprised if it hasn't provided anything until week7ish.
eq at 400mg/week for 5 weeks the hunger bonus probly hasnt even started....

But everyone's body reacts differently.
to a point, test is test unless its bunk, and if its from alin, it aint bunk.
goodluck

my responces in red, good post bro.

[mrmarcus]

dont recommend tren when hes not getting results with test bro... cmon.

THATS UR OPINION BRO, same thing happenned to me switched to tren and became a beast strength gains through the roof, by the 4th week his appetite should be THE ALL U CAN EAT DIET, on the EQ. give it another week or 2 keep us posted ok

[DTownDandy]

A few things could be going on...

Fake gear (which if its BP, isnt the case)
Your diet sucks
Your training sucks.

I dont care how much you say you put on naturally, this is a different beast.

After reading your post, I really do not care for you though so maybe someone else will help you out. But you seem to be a "know it all" so Im guessing its a lost cause.

Peace

[wagnikon]

A few things could be going on...

Fake gear (which if its BP, isnt the case)
Your diet sucks
Your training sucks.

I dont care how much you say you put on naturally, this is a different beast.

After reading your post, I really do not care for you though so maybe someone else will help you out. But you seem to be a "know it all" so Im guessing its a lost cause.

Peace



Why do you fail to mention Stealth? Are you not an advocate of Stealth brand? Is it because it is UGL?

My apoligies if I have changed the subject.

[mrvtwin80]

So I awhile back I started my first run with AAS (if want to know stats search "all natty lifter"). Got done with my 4th week and had to quit to due certain reasons. I got back to the states and started my cycle again (Test c 500mg wk 1-10 EQ 400MG 1-8 and turinabol 40mg wk 1-4) this time I "kickstarted" with t-bol which turned out to be a joke. Well 5 weeks in and all stats remain unchanged, just like the first time. I understand that test-c is a long ester, but 5 weeks and an no signs? Even with t-bol! All my gear was provided here at alins. Needless to say Im super fucking frustrated, considering the fact that 5 weeks in and no increase in mass, I have 5 weeks left so I may put on 5 or 6 lbs if the test ever decides to "kick" :rolleyes:. My diet and exercise is fine, I've managed to put on almost 60lbs naturally so I think I know what Im doing in that dep't. Alright let me hear it.

How long was your break befoer you picked your cycle back up??

[musclemd]

A missing link in this would be the time spent post 4th week off cycle- Did you use PCT?
How long was it before you started your cycle again??

[xvvfacevvx]

A few things could be going on...

Fake gear (which if its BP, isnt the case)
Your diet sucks
Your training sucks.

I dont care how much you say you put on naturally, this is a different beast.

After reading your post, I really do not care for you though so maybe someone else will help you out. But you seem to be a "know it all" so Im guessing its a lost cause.

Peace


Diet: 4,000 daily. 30/40/20 ratio. Im eating 22X my LBM.
Protein: Chicken, fish, beef (eod) tuna,
Carbs: Whole grain rolled oats, Brown rice, bananas, whole milk
Fats: nuts, cold pressed flaxseed oil.

Training: My training regiment is a little hard to explain. I lift 4 times a week, Google "OTS" is a slight variation from the eastern bulgarian power burst system and then tailored more to my needs.

Dtown, If you dont like me then just don't post its that easy why the fuck do you need to jump on to my thread and start shit, no one is holding a knife to your throat and making you post, So if you have something to say then say it, if you don't then dont.

For the other posters. I did check my body fat this morning and it read 5.5%
I started at 9%. My Body weight has remained the same, so i've actually but on some LBM. Im taking this cue to throw in about 500 more calories of carbs. I do have a ittle increase in acne on my back and increase in skin oil, teste's have reduced in size a little. If I missed anyones question let me know. Thank you.

[xvvfacevvx]

A missing link in this would be the time spent post 4th week off cycle- Did you use PCT?
How long was it before you started your cycle again??


I pinned 8 times, then had to stop. I had about 2 months in between that one and this one. i did use nolva and clomid. for 2 weeks.

[0351mang]

Check your proper nutrition intake and make sure your getting the right amount of nutrients and rest required for growth. That alone will help with the size. Then finish your cycle and pct correctly. There are also many factors as to why you can't grow. You may have some kind of medical problem such as AIDS, CANCER, etc. I recommend you see a doctor and get your nutrition and training down. Keep a log or journal.

[Invrt]

Diet: 4,000 daily. 30/40/20 ratio. Im eating 22X my LBM.
Protein: Chicken, fish, beef (eod) tuna,
Carbs: Whole grain rolled oats, Brown rice, bananas, whole milk
Fats: nuts, cold pressed flaxseed oil.

Training: My training regiment is a little hard to explain. I lift 4 times a week, Google "OTS" is a slight variation from the eastern bulgarian power burst system and then tailored more to my needs.

Dtown, If you dont like me then just don't post its that easy why the fuck do you need to jump on to my thread and start shit, no one is holding a knife to your throat and making you post, So if you have something to say then say it, if you don't then dont.

For the other posters. I did check my body fat this morning and it read 5.5%
I started at 9%. My Body weight has remained the same, so i've actually but on some LBM. Im taking this cue to throw in about 500 more calories of carbs. I do have a ittle increase in acne on my back and increase in skin oil, teste's have reduced in size a little. If I missed anyones question let me know. Thank you.

If your BF went from 9-5.5 and your weight stayed the same, you aren't eating enough. Simple thermo dymamics to gain wieght you have to eat more that you burn. Even if it was total bunk AAS (which it is not because you dropped BF and gained LBM) you would gain weight if you eat more than you burn. It might be fat but you WILL gain weight it's very simple.

Two possible scenerios

1)You are burning way more that you think. And if your LBM has gone up so has your BMR.

2)You aren't eating what you think you are. I weigh and measure EVERYTHING I eat and drink, including water.

Or a combination of both. Bump up the Kcals at least 500/day I would go more like 1000 if you are at 5.5% .

[MRDevious]

If your BF went from 9-5.5 and your weight stayed the same, you aren't eating enough. Simple thermo dymamics to gain wieght you have to eat more that you burn. Even if it was total bunk AAS (which it is not because you dropped BF and gained LBM) you would gain weight if you eat more than you burn. It might be fat but you WILL gain weight it's very simple.

Two possible scenerios

1)You are burning way more that you think. And if your LBM has gone up so has your BMR.

2)You aren't eating what you think you are. I weigh and measure EVERYTHING I eat and drink, including water.

Or a combination of both. Bump up the Kcals at least 500/day I would go more like 1000 if you are at 5.5% .

Bump! If you aren't gaining weight, you aren't eating enough..plain and simple. You are burning more than your intake, up your intake and you should see some more gain.

[xvvfacevvx]

Right on thanks everyone, I dont mind the decrease in body fat, as long as my weight is remaining the same. But Im not aiming to cut up (I do that naturally) I've logged my diet for years and know the nutrients by heart for the foods that I eat. I will however sit down and re look everything that I eat. It's a great possibility that Im under eating, I hope not cause I preach diet like it's a religion to anyone who will listen, but we all make mistakes. Regardless I will up my diet to 25X my LBM, which will put me somewhere above 5,000. Im dropping the EQ and just going to ride out the test. Thank you oresomark for you suggestions lol, I get annual physicals including HIV tests that are required for my line of work. Again thank you all for your input. I'll get back to ya in 2 weeks. Hopefully with good news.

[drob29]

If your BF went from 9-5.5 and your weight stayed the same, you aren't eating enough. Simple thermo dymamics to gain wieght you have to eat more that you burn. Even if it was total bunk AAS (which it is not because you dropped BF and gained LBM) you would gain weight if you eat more than you burn. It might be fat but you WILL gain weight it's very simple.
Two possible scenerios

1)You are burning way more that you think. And if your LBM has gone up so has your BMR.

2)You aren't eating what you think you are. I weigh and measure EVERYTHING I eat and drink, including water.

Or a combination of both. Bump up the Kcals at least 500/day I would go more like 1000 if you are at 5.5% .

100% CORRECT. (well done invrt:cool:)

your diet is off. Fix that, and all else will follow.

[MRDevious]

Right on thanks everyone, I dont mind the decrease in body fat, as long as my weight is remaining the same. But Im not aiming to cut up (I do that naturally) I've logged my diet for years and know the nutrients by heart for the foods that I eat. I will however sit down and re look everything that I eat. It's a great possibility that Im under eating, I hope not cause I preach diet like it's a religion to anyone who will listen, but we all make mistakes. Regardless I will up my diet to 25X my LBM, which will put me somewhere above 5,000. Im dropping the EQ and just going to ride out the test. Thank you oresomark for you suggestions lol, I get annual physicals including HIV tests that are required for my line of work. Again thank you all for your input. I'll get back to ya in 2 weeks. Hopefully with good news.

I'd personally stay on the EQ, as it will hopefully help stimulate your hunger more as you increase your intake...plus 5 weeks on it isn't enough.....but that's just me ;)

[HybridTheory]

If your BF went from 9-5.5 and your weight stayed the same, you aren't eating enough. Simple thermo dymamics to gain wieght you have to eat more that you burn. Even if it was total bunk AAS (which it is not because you dropped BF and gained LBM) you would gain weight if you eat more than you burn. It might be fat but you WILL gain weight it's very simple.

Two possible scenerios

1)You are burning way more that you think. And if your LBM has gone up so has your BMR.

2)You aren't eating what you think you are. I weigh and measure EVERYTHING I eat and drink, including water.

Or a combination of both. Bump up the Kcals at least 500/day I would go more like 1000 if you are at 5.5% .

it has been researched as well that those on a caloric deficit can still put on substantial weight (with the pertinent AAS). if he is really eating 4,000 calories/day, then after this time period he should be seeing at least the very onset of weight addition.

[superbeast22]

bro dtown is a good guy, hes just a lil harsh but hes to the point... just read around the rudeness.

[DTownDandy]

Having a rough week, not trying to be a dick xvvfacevvx

I just think you come off as a "know it all" as I mentioned and noone is a "know it all" with AAS.

And this is just your very 1st cycle.

If you're not gaining, you're not eating...Basic Logic. No big mystery behind this. Natural or with AAS. If you're trying to bulk, eat more complex carbs. Eat more of the bad carbs, ie, white potatoes, white bread, etc... You'll add weight.

Now Wagikon, I meant to include Stealth but I was in a hurry this a.m.

There ya go, you dont need a scientific explanation. You're just not eating enough/properly

[tinom]

bro dtown is a good guy, hes just a lil harsh but hes to the point... just read around the rudeness.

LOL, "Read around the rudeness" Thanks fuckin great Beast Lol...

[DTownDandy]

LOL, "Read around the rudeness" Thanks fuckin great Beast Lol...

Geez, you guys make it sound like Im rude in every post lol:rolleyes:

I just don't sugarcoat shit like some other people may.:cool:

[Jello]

I'd personally stay on the EQ, as it will hopefully help stimulate your hunger more as you increase your intake...plus 5 weeks on it isn't enough.....but that's just me ;)

^^^^BIG BUMP, don't drop the EQ.

[superbeast22]

Geez, you guys make it sound like Im rude in every post lol:rolleyes:

I just don't sugarcoat shit like some other people may.:cool:

im on the same page, remember how i got banned for calling the cow a cow? ;)

[tinom]

im on the same page, remember how i got banned for calling the cow a cow? ;)

I read that thread last week. I almost pissed myself. that shit was great!

[xvvfacevvx]

Jotted everything down, turns out I was eating a little over 3,500 calories a day I estimated it at 4,000. Not bad, not good either, protein was on par but I was off by 300g carbs....Ouch!!!!. Im upping it to 4,500 this week, then next week another 500.

[MRDevious]

im on the same page, remember how i got banned for calling the cow a cow? ;)

LMAO! Yes, I remember. I felt bad for the girl......she never came back.....lmao!!! :D:D:D:D

[Alin]

So I awhile back I started my first run with AAS (if want to know stats search "all natty lifter"). Got done with my 4th week and had to quit to due certain reasons. I got back to the states and started my cycle again (Test c 500mg wk 1-10 EQ 400MG 1-8 and turinabol 40mg wk 1-4) this time I "kickstarted" with t-bol which turned out to be a joke. Well 5 weeks in and all stats remain unchanged, just like the first time. I understand that test-c is a long ester, but 5 weeks and an no signs? Even with t-bol! All my gear was provided here at alins. Needless to say Im super fucking frustrated, considering the fact that 5 weeks in and no increase in mass, I have 5 weeks left so I may put on 5 or 6 lbs if the test ever decides to "kick" :rolleyes:. My diet and exercise is fine, I've managed to put on almost 60lbs naturally so I think I know what Im doing in that dep't. Alright let me hear it.

I would have to llok into your diet,,,training,,,and recovery.
How many calories per day do you think your consuming? Traing routine and sleep?

[0351mang]

EQ is great for stimulating your appetite dude. Why have you decided to drop the eq? This sounds redundant. If you want to eat more keep the eq and add some B12 injectable.

[igotups20]

i would love for someone to send me the linkto SB calling a girl a cow. I can't find it, SB chimes in on a lot of threads

[xvvfacevvx]

EQ is great for stimulating your appetite dude. .


Thats what everyone say's I can't tell a difference in my appetite.

[tinom]

Thats what everyone say's I can't tell a difference in my appetite.

Doesn't happen till atleast week 6 or 8. Atleast with me anyway. I'm on week 8 now, and I'm a bottomless pit!!!

[Jello]

Thats what everyone say's I can't tell a difference in my appetite.

I don't remember if it was week 6 or 7 but I was so bad when it came to eating that my wife actually asked not to use "Whatever the hell you're on" again. Trust me when I say, wait a few more weeks.

[JUICEDUP3]

A few things could be going on...

Fake gear (which if its BP, isnt the case)
Your diet sucks
Your training sucks.

I dont care how much you say you put on naturally, this is a different beast.

After reading your post, I really do not care for you though so maybe someone else will help you out. But you seem to be a "know it all" so Im guessing its a lost cause.

Peace

i agree!!!!!!

[Invrt]

it has been researched as well that those on a caloric deficit can still put on substantial weight (with the pertinent AAS). if he is really eating 4,000 calories/day, then after this time period he should be seeing at least the very onset of weight addition.

Please reference the research study you talk about. You can put on LBM as he did, but you CANNOT put on weight without eating more calories than you burn. And if he is burning 4000 kcals a day and eating 3500kcals he will not GAIN weight. It is impossible,that's like trying to say if you jump out of an airplane you can defy gravity and not bounce when you hit the ground. I know I am new to this board but not new to nutrition . Studies do show that you can gain LBM (burn fat) while on a caloric deficit while on AAS.

1)J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):4863-72
Schroeder ET, Zheng L, Ong MD, Martinez C, Flores C, Stewart Y, Azen C, Sattler FR.
Department of Medicine and Division of Infectious Diseases, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California 90033, USA.

We investigated the effects of oxandrolone on regional fat compartments and markers of metabolism. Thirty-two 60- to 87-yr-old men (body mass index, 28.1 +/- 3.4 kg/m(2)) were randomized to oxandrolone (20 mg/d; n = 20) or matching placebo (n = 12) treatment for 12 wk. Oxandrolone reduced total (-1.8 +/- 1.0 kg; P < 0.001), trunk (-1.2 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.001), and appendicular (-0.6 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.001) fat, as determined by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry. The changes in total and trunk fat were greater (P < 0.001) than the changes with placebo. By magnetic resonance imaging, visceral adipose tissue decreased (-20.9 +/- 12 cm(2); P < 0.001), abdominal sc adipose tissue (SAT) declined (-10.7 +/- 12.1 cm(2); P = 0.043), the ratio VAT/SAT declined from 0.57 +/- 0.23 to 0.49 +/- 0.19 (P = 0.002), and proximal and distal thigh SC fat declined [-8.3 +/- 6.7 cm(2) (P < 0.001) and -2.2 +/- 3.0 kg (P = 0.004), respectively]. Changes in proximal and distal thigh SC fat with oxandrolone were different than with placebo (P = 0.018 and P = 0.059). A marker of insulin sensitivity (quantitative insulin sensitivity check index) improved with oxandrolone by 0.0041 +/- 0.0071 (P = 0.018) at study wk 12. Changes in total fat, abdominal SAT, and proximal extremity SC fat were correlated with changes in fasting insulin from baseline to study wk 12 (r >or= 0.45; P < 0.05). Losses of total fat and SAT were greater in men with baseline testosterone of 10.4 nmol/liter or less (<or= 300 ng/dl) than in those with higher levels [-2.5 +/- 1.1 vs. -1.5 +/- 0.8 kg (P = 0.036) and -24.1 +/- 14.3 vs. -2.9 +/- 21.3 cm(2) (P = 0.03), respectively]. Twelve weeks after discontinuing oxandrolone, 83% of the reductions in total, trunk, and extremity fat by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry scanning were sustained (P < 0.02). Androgen therapy, therefore, produced significant and durable reductions in regional abdominal and peripheral adipose tissue that were associated with improvements in estimates of insulin sensitivity. However, high-density lipoprotein cholesterol decreased by -0.49 +/- 0.21 mmol/liter and directly measured low-density lipoprotein cholesterol increased by 0.57 +/- 0.67 mmol/liter and non-high-density lipoprotein cholesterol increased by 0.54 +/- 0.97 mmol/liter (P < 0.03 for each) during treatment with oxandrolone; these changes were largely reversible. Thus, therapy with an androgen that does not adversely affect lipids may be beneficial for some components of the metabolic syndrome in overweight older men with low testosterone levels.

2)Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24
Lovejoy JC, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R.
Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808-4124, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic steroid (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means. DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point. SUBJECTS: Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone (T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL). MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters. RESULTS: After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat, and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at 3 months than in the TE and PL groups. There were significant main effects of treatment at 3 months on serum T and free T (increased in the TE group and decreased in the ASOX group) and on thyroid hormone parameters (T4 and T3 resin uptake significantly decreased in the ASOX group compared with the other two groups). There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone decanoate (ASND) after 3 months. ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat. ASND treatment also decreased thigh muscle area, while ASOX treatment increased high muscle. ASND reversed the effects of ASOX on lipoproteins and thyroid hormones. The previously reported effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to decrease. Neither TE nor AS treatment resulted in any change in urologic parameters. CONCLUSIONS: Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing abdominal fat.

3)Burns. 2003 Dec;29(8):793-7

4)Metabolic effects of anabolic steroids. Wien Med Wochenschr. 1993;

5)Biochim Biophys Acta. 1995 May 11;1244(1):117-20.

6)J Lab Clin Med. 1995 Mar;125(3):326-33

[Invrt]

Jotted everything down, turns out I was eating a little over 3,500 calories a day I estimated it at 4,000. Not bad, not good either, protein was on par but I was off by 300g carbs....Ouch!!!!. Im upping it to 4,500 this week, then next week another 500.

Good job on finding the core problem :D I ran into similar situations but it was because of increased BMR while on cycle (I worked a lot harder in the gym and on the field) imagine that;)

[HybridTheory]

Please reference the research study you talk about. You can put on LBM as he did, but you CANNOT put on weight without eating more calories than you burn. And if he is burning 4000 kcals a day and eating 3500kcals he will not GAIN weight. It is impossible,that's like trying to say if you jump out of an airplane you can defy gravity and not bounce when you hit the ground. I know I am new to this board but not new to nutrition . Studies do show that you can gain LBM (burn fat) while on a caloric deficit while on AAS.

1)J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):4863-72
Schroeder ET, Zheng L, Ong MD, Martinez C, Flores C, Stewart Y, Azen C, Sattler FR.
Department of Medicine and Division of Infectious Diseases, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California 90033, USA.

We investigated the effects of oxandrolone on regional fat compartments and markers of metabolism. Thirty-two 60- to 87-yr-old men (body mass index, 28.1 +/- 3.4 kg/m(2)) were randomized to oxandrolone (20 mg/d; n = 20) or matching placebo (n = 12) treatment for 12 wk. Oxandrolone reduced total (-1.8 +/- 1.0 kg; P < 0.001), trunk (-1.2 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.001), and appendicular (-0.6 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.001) fat, as determined by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry. The changes in total and trunk fat were greater (P < 0.001) than the changes with placebo. By magnetic resonance imaging, visceral adipose tissue decreased (-20.9 +/- 12 cm(2); P < 0.001), abdominal sc adipose tissue (SAT) declined (-10.7 +/- 12.1 cm(2); P = 0.043), the ratio VAT/SAT declined from 0.57 +/- 0.23 to 0.49 +/- 0.19 (P = 0.002), and proximal and distal thigh SC fat declined [-8.3 +/- 6.7 cm(2) (P < 0.001) and -2.2 +/- 3.0 kg (P = 0.004), respectively]. Changes in proximal and distal thigh SC fat with oxandrolone were different than with placebo (P = 0.018 and P = 0.059). A marker of insulin sensitivity (quantitative insulin sensitivity check index) improved with oxandrolone by 0.0041 +/- 0.0071 (P = 0.018) at study wk 12. Changes in total fat, abdominal SAT, and proximal extremity SC fat were correlated with changes in fasting insulin from baseline to study wk 12 (r >or= 0.45; P < 0.05). Losses of total fat and SAT were greater in men with baseline testosterone of 10.4 nmol/liter or less (<or= 300 ng/dl) than in those with higher levels [-2.5 +/- 1.1 vs. -1.5 +/- 0.8 kg (P = 0.036) and -24.1 +/- 14.3 vs. -2.9 +/- 21.3 cm(2) (P = 0.03), respectively]. Twelve weeks after discontinuing oxandrolone, 83% of the reductions in total, trunk, and extremity fat by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry scanning were sustained (P < 0.02). Androgen therapy, therefore, produced significant and durable reductions in regional abdominal and peripheral adipose tissue that were associated with improvements in estimates of insulin sensitivity. However, high-density lipoprotein cholesterol decreased by -0.49 +/- 0.21 mmol/liter and directly measured low-density lipoprotein cholesterol increased by 0.57 +/- 0.67 mmol/liter and non-high-density lipoprotein cholesterol increased by 0.54 +/- 0.97 mmol/liter (P < 0.03 for each) during treatment with oxandrolone; these changes were largely reversible. Thus, therapy with an androgen that does not adversely affect lipids may be beneficial for some components of the metabolic syndrome in overweight older men with low testosterone levels.

2)Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24
Lovejoy JC, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R.
Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808-4124, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic steroid (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means. DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point. SUBJECTS: Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone (T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL). MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters. RESULTS: After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat, and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at 3 months than in the TE and PL groups. There were significant main effects of treatment at 3 months on serum T and free T (increased in the TE group and decreased in the ASOX group) and on thyroid hormone parameters (T4 and T3 resin uptake significantly decreased in the ASOX group compared with the other two groups). There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone decanoate (ASND) after 3 months. ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat. ASND treatment also decreased thigh muscle area, while ASOX treatment increased high muscle. ASND reversed the effects of ASOX on lipoproteins and thyroid hormones. The previously reported effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to decrease. Neither TE nor AS treatment resulted in any change in urologic parameters. CONCLUSIONS: Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing abdominal fat.

3)Burns. 2003 Dec;29(8):793-7

4)Metabolic effects of anabolic steroids. Wien Med Wochenschr. 1993;

5)Biochim Biophys Acta. 1995 May 11;1244(1):117-20.

6)J Lab Clin Med. 1995 Mar;125(3):326-33

unfortunately, i dont have a study to refer as of yet. im tryin to find an article that was written by patrick arnold about how such a process can transpire. sure its not pubmed etc...but if you know anything about PA, he is way ahead of the game in organic chemistry and steroidal compunds.

the logic seems infallible when discussing the nature of a caloric deficit, but with the addition of AAS it really isnt all that simple (also brush up on your physics! refer: Heisenberg uncertainty principle). I also remember spillwin mentioning something to the effect of primo being a compound that can reduce fat while adding muscle, but im not entirely sure.

however, the study you posted is irrelevant for many reasons. 1) there is no standard for diet (other than calorie control) 2) the subjects were overweight, elderly (60+) men with low test levels 3) the dosage for the TE was virtually insubstantial when extrpolating to recereational usage. Also oddly enough the TE group actually saw an increase in visceral fat within a "relevant timeframe" while no other group did.

im of course at a loss still with no evidence to substantiate my claim, but i will definitely follow up as soon as possible.

apart from that, the issue at hand is very much different than what were speaking on. 3,500-4,000 is still relatively at least maintenance calories and in an anabolic state would still produce a tangible weight gain at this juncture. i think there is still a cause for speculation, because at the very least an increase in water weight should be noticeable.

im a few sheets to the wind( off-cycle) here so hopefully this is coherent. i will follow up tomorrow in an unaltered state ha

[Invrt]

. I also remember spillwin mentioning something to the effect of primo being a compound that can reduce fat while adding muscle, but im not entirely sure.

YES that is what I'm trying to say, obviously not very well :o

however, the study you posted is irrelevant for many reasons. 1) there is no standard for diet (other than calorie control) 2) the subjects were overweight, elderly (60+) men with low test levels 3) the dosage for the TE was virtually insubstantial when extrpolating to recereational usage. Also oddly enough the TE group actually saw an increase in visceral fat within a "relevant timeframe" while no other group did.

Agreed they were fat Old men (40-60):p (are you saying us 40 plus are old ?);)....but I was trying to show that AAS can burn fat....

im of course at a loss still with no evidence to substantiate my claim, but i will definitely follow up as soon as possible.

apart from that, the issue at hand is very much different than what were speaking on. 3,500-4,000 is still relatively at least maintenance calories

(That is an assumption, we don't know what his BMR is, or his daily caloric burn)

and in an anabolic state would still produce a tangible weight gain at this juncture. i think there is still a cause for speculation, because at the very least an increase in water weight should be noticeable.

im a few sheets to the wind( off-cycle) here so hopefully this is coherent. i will follow up tomorrow in an unaltered state ha

I think we are on the same page. In a calorie deficit you can gain LBM on AAS by dropping fat(or burning energy via fat and using protein consumption for synthesis). Yes you could gain with water weight but you cannot produce more LBM without excess calories. You cannot invent a machine that produces enough energy to sustain itself (physics) no perpetual machine.

The first law of thermodynamics, an expression of the principle of conservation of energy, states that energy can be transformed (changed from one form to another), but cannot be created or destroyed. Alternatively:

“ The increase in the internal energy of a system is equal to the amount of energy added by heating the system, minus the amount lost as a result of the work done by the system on its surroundings.

Because the body must expend energy to create fat, the amount of energy a person has to expend to lose weight is smaller than the amount they have to consume in order to gain weight. However, the body may increase its basal metabolic rate to preferentially "burn off" new calories or decrease it to conserve energy to balance out increased activity. Thus, actual weight changes vary between individuals. Also, the computations above assume that all the weight gained and lost is in the form of fat. In reality, this is a mixture of protein, carbohydrates, etc. (in muscle tissue, organs, etc.).

Consider the following theoretical calculation.

Fat contains about 3,500 kilocalories per pound (32 kJ/g).
If you eat 3,500 kcal more than your body needs, you will put on 0.3 pounds (0.14 kg) of fat (assuming 30% digestion efficiency, or less depending on food conversion inefficiency not included in the "body needs" category).
If you burn 3,500 kcal more than you eat, you lose about 1 pound (0.45 kg) of fat, assuming that only fat is burnt (this is close to 100% since even the waste heat counts toward the 3,500 kcal). However, energy sources can come from catabolism of protein (muscles), and fat may be preferentially saved. The use of different body materials as available must be considered.
So with AAS that .3lbs of fat should be converted to muscle gain instead.



It appears I have hyjacked this thread.....Sorry xvvfacevvx ....Hope we have answered your questions....

[xvvfacevvx]

.It appears I have hyjacked this thread.....Sorry xvvfacevvx ....Hope we have answered your questions....


Naw its all good, allot of good points made.

[peptidoglycan]

all my growth are inbetween 6-8th week on long esters. almost like i just wake up one morning and im huge lol.

[xvvfacevvx]

Im taking all the guessing out. Im going in for bloodwork to see where my test levels stand. And then again after PCT of course. Stand by.

[xvvfacevvx]

Well. After calling up the medic, a blood test will be 200+ dollars If I get a wild hair I might get one done in a week or so, if not i'll just get one after PCT. I've only put on 5lbs and Im going into the 7th week. Diet is sitting at 4,000 daily. Workouts are EOD. Getting 9+hours sleep. Needless to say if I ever decide to juice again, I will be looking elsewhere.

[Jello]

If you only gained 5lbs without gear in 7 weeks with that kind of increase in calories, I would say you were doing something wrong. On gear, you have definitely missed the boat somewhere. Maybe you need to have a honest look at what you are doing and stop blaming the gear.

[xvvfacevvx]

If you only gained 5lbs without gear in 7 weeks with that kind of increase in calories, I would say you were doing something wrong. On gear, you have definitely missed the boat somewhere. Maybe you need to have a honest look at what you are doing and stop blaming the gear.



You kidding me? 5lbs in 7 weeks natty is great!!! "We already had this discussion on what I was doing" Even if I did miss the "boat" somewhere wouldn't I have some increase in appetite, or oily skin, or something? 7 weeks in and I feel absolutely nothing no vasularity, not pump. This is my first time using any kind of hormone legal or illegal. I think 500mg test and 400 EQ weekly would be ample amount for a first timer, In fact one of you roid vets suggested I only use 400mg weekly of test. Im sure BP has worked great for allot of you members out there, maybe I got a bad batch, whatever Im not name calling Im just keeping you updated on how Im doing.

[Invrt]

I can't find your stats.....But for example if you weigh 200lbs and went from 9% to 5.5% and staying at the same weight that is an increase in LBM of 7lbs and if you are still at 5.5% and up 5lbs that's a gain of 12lbs of LBM at week 7 that is AWESOME. It's about LBM not weight.

[xvvfacevvx]

I started at 187 at around 9%. I measured my self again using the parillo 9 site and Im at 8% weighing 192. The sudden influx of cals jumped my bf up after we decided to up my cals. LBM, hasn't changed significantly and water weight hasn't changed.

[ojs]

Just read this whole thread. Start to finish it just sounds like a diet problem. Post your exact diet.

[Invrt]

My diet and exercise is fine, I've managed to put on almost 60lbs naturally so I think I know what Im doing in that dep't. Alright let me hear it.

How long did it take you to go from 127 to 187 ?

[xvvfacevvx]

Just read this whole thread. Start to finish it just sounds like a diet problem. Post your exact diet.

No problem here ya go.....

Meal 1: Iso mass extreme gainer, banana, 2 cups whole milk

Meal 2: 8oz chicken breast, 2 cup rice (one cup white, once cup brown), 2 glasses whole milk

Meal 3: Iso mass gainer,

Meal 4: 8oz chicken 1 cup rice, 1 cup corn.

Meal 5: 8-10 oz tuna sandwich, (4 slices whole wheat bread) 1 cup whole milk

Meal 6: Iso mass extreme gainer.

I drink about a gallon or so water daily, I take 2 tablespoons flaxseed oil daily and I take mega mans multi-v.

[xvvfacevvx]

How long did it take you to go from 127 to 187 ?


I started at 130ish. I jumped up to 170 in 9 nine months sitting at 9% BF. I got back from deployment and started drinking and dropped to 150 (this lasted for almost 2 years :confused:) I got back in the gym and got up to 180 in just under a year, Coasted for a couple months then got up to 190ish. I flux 5lbs at any given day.

[Invrt]

Just read this whole thread. Start to finish it just sounds like a diet problem. Post your exact diet.

My diet and exercise is fine, I've managed to put on almost 60lbs naturally so I think I know what Im doing in that dep't. Alright let me hear it.

How long did it take you to go from 127 to 187 ? I still think your diet is the problem too...The only way you can gain 5lbs in 7 weeks is to have a daily surplus of 357kcals...

[superbeast22]

No problem here ya go.....

Meal 1: Iso mass extreme gainer, banana, 2 cups whole milk

Meal 2: 8oz chicken breast, 2 cup rice (one cup white, once cup brown), 2 glasses whole milk

Meal 3: Iso mass gainer,

Meal 4: 8oz chicken 1 cup rice, 1 cup corn.

Meal 5: 8-10 oz tuna sandwich, (4 slices whole wheat bread) 1 cup whole milk

Meal 6: Iso mass extreme gainer.

I drink about a gallon or so water daily, I take 2 tablespoons flaxseed oil daily and I take mega mans multi-v.

if you ask me there isnt enough real food. change your first meal to my breakfast, 2 slices of toast, bowel of oatmeal (2 servings) and at least 6 eggs. i def think your not eating enough to get bigger, that may have worked when you were smaller, but not now brohan!

[xvvfacevvx]

if you ask me there isnt enough real food. change your first meal to my breakfast, 2 slices of toast, bowel of oatmeal (2 servings) and at least 6 eggs. i def think your not eating enough to get bigger, that may have worked when you were smaller, but not now brohan!

Eggs is a no go unless you want to see me break out. I drink a shake upon waking, then about 2 hours later I have my meal allot of people do this with grear results. That diet has all the right amounts of calories. I mean I could add more whole food sure, but does this still validate the fact of not gaining on AAS? I dont think so.

[priest]

^^bump^^^
That seems like half a days worth of food.

This is Fueledbyhates bulking diet. Try this.

0530 Breakfast#1

protein shake whey isolate
2 slices whitebread and jelly sandwhich (2tbsp jelly)
3 whole eggs and 3 egg whites
large banana
totals (820cal, 20g fat, 80g carbs, 80g prot.)

0730 Breakfast #2

2 slices whole wheat bread 1tbsp jelly and 1tbsp peanut butter
2 cups oatmeal (dry measured) (fuck its a shit load of oatmeal!!!)
totals(810cal, 21g fat, 140 carbs, 32g prot.)

0930 Snack
8oz turkey on 2 slices of wheat bread (this is a big fucker too)
sometimes i add mustard
totals (300cal, 2g fat, 28g carbs, 40g protein)

1130 Lunch
16-20 oz chicken breast
2 cups mixed greens
2 tbsp dressing (went with a light dressing i got tired of the olive oil and vinegar)
totals (607cal, 11g of fat, 4 carbs, 116g prot.)

preworkout around 100pm
protein shake
apple
totals( 285cal, 1g fat, 19 carb 50g prot.)

during workout i drink a gatorade for sugar for insulin spike

post w/o around 330 or 4
protein shake
tbsp honey 1 slice white bread
totals (275cal, 1g fat, 32g carb, 54g prot.)
creatine

pre dinner ( this is if i can slam it down )
large can of tuna w/2tbsp miracle whip
totals (320cal, 6g fat, 2g carbs, 55g prot.)

dinner around 530 not later than 700
12 oz (or more) of lean meat
1 lrg sweet potato
1 cup brocolli
2 cups salad w/dressing
totals (630cal, 5g fat, 0g carb, 75g prot.)

prebed snack
cup oatmeal
cup cottage chse nofat
1oz walnuts
totals (625cal, 24g fat about 20g from walnuts, 66 carbs oatmeal, 40g prot)

overall totals ~4775 cals w/tuna 4450w/o
90g fat
400g carbs
450-500g protein this may be over kill but will see!!

[xvvfacevvx]

That diet posted above have allot less carbs then my current diet....it wouldn't be an improvement. The postworkout meal you have is horrible BTW.

[priest]

That diet posted above have allot less carbs then my current diet....it wouldn't be an improvement. The postworkout meal you have is horrible BTW.

I used it and never had any doubts about my gear.:cool:

[buzzkill44]

^^bump^^^
That seems like half a days worth of food.

This is Fueledbyhates bulking diet. Try this.

0530 Breakfast#1

protein shake whey isolate
2 slices whitebread and jelly sandwhich (2tbsp jelly)
3 whole eggs and 3 egg whites
large banana
totals (820cal, 20g fat, 80g carbs, 80g prot.)

0730 Breakfast #2

2 slices whole wheat bread 1tbsp jelly and 1tbsp peanut butter
2 cups oatmeal (dry measured) (fuck its a shit load of oatmeal!!!)
totals(810cal, 21g fat, 140 carbs, 32g prot.)

0930 Snack
8oz turkey on 2 slices of wheat bread (this is a big fucker too)
sometimes i add mustard
totals (300cal, 2g fat, 28g carbs, 40g protein)

1130 Lunch
16-20 oz chicken breast
2 cups mixed greens
2 tbsp dressing (went with a light dressing i got tired of the olive oil and vinegar)
totals (607cal, 11g of fat, 4 carbs, 116g prot.)

preworkout around 100pm
protein shake
apple
totals( 285cal, 1g fat, 19 carb 50g prot.)

during workout i drink a gatorade for sugar for insulin spike

post w/o around 330 or 4
protein shake
tbsp honey 1 slice white bread
totals (275cal, 1g fat, 32g carb, 54g prot.)
creatine

pre dinner ( this is if i can slam it down )
large can of tuna w/2tbsp miracle whip
totals (320cal, 6g fat, 2g carbs, 55g prot.)

dinner around 530 not later than 700
12 oz (or more) of lean meat
1 lrg sweet potato
1 cup brocolli
2 cups salad w/dressing
totals (630cal, 5g fat, 0g carb, 75g prot.)

prebed snack
cup oatmeal
cup cottage chse nofat
1oz walnuts
totals (625cal, 24g fat about 20g from walnuts, 66 carbs oatmeal, 40g prot)

overall totals ~4775 cals w/tuna 4450w/o
90g fat
400g carbs
450-500g protein this may be over kill but will see!!



how is this not an improvement? your taking too many shakes. in my opinion they are only helpful post workout, and if you can't eat REAL food/ or your too lazy to cook. there is no substitute for real food. just my opinion. eat more.

[xvvfacevvx]

The gentlemen that posted that plan has 3 shakes in his diet, I have 3 as well, his diet may have more whole food, but foods like brocolli and salad, walnuts, are not exactly calorie dense foods. On another note he weighs almost 40lbs more than me and he is only eating about 500 more calories a day then I am.

[Invrt]

The gentlemen that posted that plan has 3 shakes in his diet, I have 3 as well, his diet may have more whole food, but foods like brocolli and salad, walnuts, are not exactly calorie dense foods. On another note he weighs almost 40lbs more than me and he is only eating about 500 more calories a day then I am.

Then you must be burning more....either by doing more moving or a higher metabolism. Get the blood work $200 bucks is nothing if you find out there's a problem (like thyroid).

[xvvfacevvx]

Then you must be burning more....either by doing more moving or a higher metabolism. Get the blood work $200 bucks is nothing if you find out there's a problem (like thyroid).

I got a full physical, including blood at the beginning of the year, I might just cough up the money and get one done to shut everyone up including me. :D

[buzzkill44]

he also is taking his shakes with some sort of food. your body doesn't assimilate every calorie/protein that is in your extreme mass shakes. with real food your body assimilates more. i didn't say his was awesome i said it's better. and everyone is different. so 500 more cals for him could be like 1000 for your. but whatever just eat some more. i doubt your gear is bunk. i've ordered many cycles for myself and others and every single thing has been legit.

[priest]

Im not going to add up the totals of your meals but theres no way your diet comes close to any of those numbers. Those are protein shakes, not weight gainer. Your diet may have gotten you where you are today, but its time to step it up. If you want to be a 230lb guy you have to eat like one. Two years ago I was 6'2, 178lbs. i got to 200lb naturally eating half that amount of food. Then my weight froze. I practically doubled my intake and ran my first cycle "all from Alin" and hit the 220's. Im off cycle now, still eating that menu, with the addition of a can of condensed milk to two of those shakes and Im still gaining. And yes, my stomach does look like shit, but its winter and its easier to bulk with some meat on ya.

[xvvfacevvx]

Thanks......

[buzzkill44]

Im not going to add up the totals of your meals but theres no way your diet comes close to any of those numbers. Those are protein shakes, not weight gainer. Your diet may have gotten you where you are today, but its time to step it up. If you want to be a 230lb guy you have to eat like one. Two years ago I was 6'2, 178lbs. i got to 200lb naturally eating half that amount of food. Then my weight froze. I practically doubled my intake and ran my first cycle "all from Alin" and hit the 220's. Im off cycle now, still eating that menu, with the addition of a can of condensed milk to two of those shakes and Im still gaining. And yes, my stomach does look like shit, but its winter and its easier to bulk with some meat on ya.

exactly. we're just trying to help bud. you paid for this shit so we want to make sure your getting everything you can outta it.

[MRDevious]

No problem here ya go.....

Meal 1: Iso mass extreme gainer, banana, 2 cups whole milk

Meal 2: 8oz chicken breast, 2 cup rice (one cup white, once cup brown), 2 glasses whole milk

Meal 3: Iso mass gainer,

Meal 4: 8oz chicken 1 cup rice, 1 cup corn.

Meal 5: 8-10 oz tuna sandwich, (4 slices whole wheat bread) 1 cup whole milk

Meal 6: Iso mass extreme gainer.

I drink about a gallon or so water daily, I take 2 tablespoons flaxseed oil daily and I take mega mans multi-v.



Holy shit. No wonder i'm gaining weight like crazy. My diet looks nothing like yours. I probably eat 2 to 3 times as much (easily).....damn i'm a fatass! lol.

[xvvfacevvx]

you also have 20lbs on me. So your trying to tell me that your eating 8,000 calories a day....

[priest]

you also have 20lbs on me. So your trying to tell me that your eating 8,000 calories a day....

He has 20 lbs on you because he eats more. if you ate more, you would have 20lbs on yourself. its easy. honestly, i look at you diet and it looks like something that fat guy Jared from the subway commercials would eat to loose weight, not pack on muscle. if you doubled the meals and kept those skakes, it would be a different story.

[MRDevious]

you also have 20lbs on me. So your trying to tell me that your eating 8,000 calories a day....

Honestly, I don't count. I eat anything in sight. Thus, why my BF is so high....i'm not trying to eat lean...i'm just looking to eat. I'll cut the fat later on. Maybe it's not the best way to do it, but it works perfectly for me.

[xvvfacevvx]

Your right, 4,100 calories a day is definetly a weight loss plan, the 557g carbs and the 270g of protien is absolutely nothing man Im suprised im not dead!!!!!!!! This is a joke.

[tinom]

Honestly, I don't count. I eat anything in sight. Thus, why my BF is so high....i'm not trying to eat lean...i'm just looking to eat. I'll cut the fat later on. Maybe it's not the best way to do it, but it works perfectly for me.

Dev, what your BF and weight in the avatar?

[MRDevious]

Dev, what your BF and weight in the avatar?

I think I was around 210lbs and around 15-16%bf (from the little hand held device)....

[priest]

Your right, 4,100 calories a day is definetly a weight loss plan, the 557g carbs and the 270g of protien is absolutely nothing man Im suprised im not dead!!!!!!!! This is a joke.

Thats a joke. Chill out bro. were here to help.

[MRDevious]

Your right, 4,100 calories a day is definetly a weight loss plan, the 557g carbs and the 270g of protien is absolutely nothing man Im suprised im not dead!!!!!!!! This is a joke.

Are you always an asshole or only when you are on gear? Lighten up dude, people are trying to help. Take it or leave it...simple as that.

[buzzkill44]

yeah chill out. why ask for advice then not take any? apparently your doing everything correct.........

[xvvfacevvx]

Nope always an asshole. What kind of excuses you guys gonna give when I go get bloodwork done and the test level are in normal range?

[DTownDandy]

From page one, we have all been telling him diet.

Just wait for OJS to chime in....

Until then, it's still your diet bro

[DTownDandy]

Nope always an asshole. What kind of excuses you guys gonna give when I go get bloodwork done and the test level are in normal range?

What compounds and dosagesa are you using again?

[MRDevious]

Nope always an asshole. What kind of excuses you guys gonna give when I go get bloodwork done and the test level are in normal range?

I think we'd all love to see the bloodwork. Hell...i'll pitch in $20 to see it........somehow I think you would try to argue that the doctor was wrong though... :rolleyes:

[ojs]

I just looked over your diet. It generally looks like a good maintenance diet. The selections aren't that bad. The more 0bvious problem is simple. It's not enough food.

Your right, 4,100 calories a day is definetly a weight loss plan, the 557g carbs and the 270g of protien is absolutely nothing man Im suprised im not dead!!!!!!!! This is a joke.

After reading this post I'm thinking you're simply a stupid guy. And everyone is wasting their time trying to help you.

How much food do you have to eat to gain muscle? Simple, enough to gain at least some weight on the scale every week. If you're not eating at least enough to gain weight every week, there is very little chance you'll gain muscle size.

Here's the bottom line. Everyone's metabolism is different. Some guys run slower. Some guys run faster. You get no choice. Your metabolism is simply what it is. So you burn the food as fast as you burn it. You get no choice. If you happen to fall in the averages, you'll need as much food as an average guy. If you run fast, you'll need more. The exact count of how many calories you eat is not as important as understanding the simple physiology behind it.

You can start by pouring 2tblsp of Flaxseed oil on your rice at each meal. And add more bananas through the day. I'd also add peanut snacks and peanut butter to your diet.

[xvvfacevvx]

OJS, I appreicate your input, guess Im come acrossed as a "stupid guy" cause people are saying that 4,000 calorie diet is for weight loss, advice such as that pisses me off allot of people on here are endomorphs and never had to battle like ectomorphs to gain weight. Advice like yours has some stick to it. Obvisously to grow you must eat, if anyone knows that its me. On the other hand however, Im using the same calorie ratios that I've always used. I take my LBM and then X it by 25 and I get my numbers. My weight goes up my calores follow. Besides the weight gain there are no signs of AAS in my system (especially appetite, and with the use of EQ my diet should be "all you can eat") strength=nothing, pumps=nothing, vasularity=nothing. Once again thanks ojs for solid advice.

Dtown 500mg bi-weekly, 400mg EQ bi-weekly.

[DTownDandy]

IMO I think 270g of protein is good for being OFF cycle not on. Try 400g and then you can adjust from there.

Id add another shake and eat an extra serving at each meal.

Theres nothing wrong with adding some fat on while bulking..

START USING EVOO!

[priest]

OJS, I appreicate your input, guess Im come acrossed as a "stupid guy" cause people are saying that 4,000 calorie diet is for weight loss, advice such as that pisses me off allot of people on here are endomorphs and never had to battle like ectomorphs to gain weight. Advice like yours has some stick to it. Obvisously to grow you must eat, if anyone knows that its me. On the other hand however, Im using the same calorie ratios that I've always used. I take my LBM and then X it by 25 and I get my numbers. My weight goes up my calores follow. Besides the weight gain there are no signs of AAS in my system (especially appetite, and with the use of EQ my diet should be "all you can eat") strength=nothing, pumps=nothing, vasularity=nothing. Once again thanks ojs for solid advice.

Dtown 500mg bi-weekly, 400mg EQ bi-weekly.

Im that guy. I thought it was a battle i would never win. I never thought it would be possible for me to see 200lbs.. But you know what, once I listened to the vets on here and started eating like they told me to, the only battle was being able to afford the grocery bill. The secret to getting big has already been discoverd, you dont have to figure anything out. Go buy the food, eat it, work out, and get big. Your dilemma has been solved. your gear is good. Now go enjoy your cycle.

[xvvfacevvx]

Well in about a week I'll have the labs back, till then Im just going to drop it.........

[xvvfacevvx]

Well I got good news and I have bad news. The doc called me yesterday and told me he had the test results. He begin to say that my test levels were almost 5,000!!!! He then reminded me that my Blood pressure was 187/90 and my BPM was 87. He then proceeded to tell me he's not suprised I was having problems gaining weight, He then informed me that my thyroid is hyperactive. The way he put it he said I could've ate a horse everyday and my body would still manage to burn off every calorie. He advised me to start PCT immediately and come back in a month or so and get a follow-up. I told him that I always had a fast metabolism and always had problems gaining and mainting weight. He believes that the huge in-balance in hormones amplified my condition.

Now with that said. I knew something was not right. I was also wrong to blame the gear (I do admit when I am wrong ;) ) But Im sure allot of you can appreciate my frustration when I was eating an average bulking diet taking AAS, training my ass off knowing that every other person in my shoes would have seen good gains and I wasn't. I asked the doc If I were to have taken less test-c could I have avoided this situation, he said its a great possibility. I followed the proper protocol for a first time AAS user, 500mg test and 400mg eq. My situation is a great example on how a first timer should NOT take any more than 400-500mg of test a week, and to get blood test in mid-cycle. Thank's for all your support. As promised I will keep you all updated regardless its good news or bad news......

[Jello]

5000 huh? That is um............impressive.

At least you got some answers you can do something with.

[xvvfacevvx]

5000 huh? That is um............impressive.

At least you got some answers you can do something with.


He said it was climbing close to 5,000 he didnt give me an exact number, Im going to pick up the paperwork in the next couple days, I will try to scan it and post it up.

[Invrt]

He said it was climbing close to 5,000 he didnt give me an exact number, Im going to pick up the paperwork in the next couple days, I will try to scan it and post it up.

That's all GOOD NEWS ! You found out the root of the problem. I suspected a thyroid problem,as others did. Now you can get your thyroid balanced and get rockn'. Then you can go off your meds to cut !:D Just kidding !