Good first cycle experiences?

[OuchThatHurts]

I wish I could do my first cycle over again.... well, what I mean is, I wish I could feel the effects the same as I did. I did (just 2) 10cc bottles of Schein enanthate and wow! By the fourth week at 400/wk, I was on top of the world! That was almost 5 years ago.

My workouts were great. OMG and the sex! Both are still good but let's face it... that first time is awesome. One thing that really sticks out in my head is all the Qtips I went through because my earwax went into overdrive. It was the only thing that I thought was worrisome. Weird huh? My nuts didn't shrink and I didn't even do any PCT! The only thing I did was cycle onto creatine as the test wore off like that would make a big difference. LOL.

The only thing that comes close was the first time I did dbol. It blew me up like a balloon! And I just generally felt good all over as well.

Anyone else want to share what worked for them? I've done dozen of cycles with just about every compound so I know what I like and don't.

also I won't do winstrol anymore. The joints, the toxicity... what's the point? I've included this compound in every cutting cycle I ever did and noticed zilch. Why do I bother?

My favorites seem to be:

test prop, enan, cyp (sometimes I break my rules and do a cc of prop on a workout day)
deca or tren
anavar or proviron or dianabol

I've done almost everything else but these few always did more than enough. A50's broke me out all over, so did Halo (but damn!)... winstrol I'm not too pleased with in any regard. It's really toxic too which bothers me. Eq made me question whether it was working at all the two times I tried it and at that price, it shouldn't.

Just basically test and anabolics with an oral. Anyone discover a combo that did wonders for them? Everyone is different. I think my next cycle will be a test/NPP/proviron (maybe with some dbol and var)

I'd like to continue with the tren but either I just have a cough or tren is giving me a cough - plus making me sweat like a dog at night. So perhaps I'm not reacting well to it. I'm switching brands in a few weeks so we'll see.

later!

[Kaiser]

I wish I could do my first cycle over again.... well, what I mean is, I wish I could feel the effects the same as I did. I did (just 2) 10cc bottles of Schein enanthate and wow! By the fourth week at 400/wk, I was on top of the world! That was almost 5 years ago.

My workouts were great. OMG and the sex! Both are still good but let's face it... that first time is awesome. One thing that really sticks out in my head is all the Qtips I went through because my earwax went into overdrive. It was the only thing that I thought was worrisome. Weird huh? My nuts didn't shrink and I didn't even do any PCT! The only thing I did was cycle onto creatine as the test wore off like that would make a big difference. LOL.

The only thing that comes close was the first time I did dbol. It blew me up like a balloon! And I just generally felt good all over as well.

Anyone else want to share what worked for them? I've done dozen of cycles with just about every compound so I know what I like and don't.

also I won't do winstrol anymore. The joints, the toxicity... what's the point? I've included this compound in every cutting cycle I ever did and noticed zilch. Why do I bother?

My favorites seem to be:

test prop, enan, cyp (sometimes I break my rules and do a cc of prop on a workout day)
deca or tren
anavar or proviron or dianabol

I've done almost everything else but these few always did more than enough. A50's broke me out all over, so did Halo (but damn!)... winstrol I'm not too pleased with in any regard. It's really toxic too which bothers me. Eq made me question whether it was working at all the two times I tried it and at that price, it shouldn't.

Just basically test and anabolics with an oral. Anyone discover a combo that did wonders for them? Everyone is different. I think my next cycle will be a test/NPP/proviron (maybe with some dbol and var)

I'd like to continue with the tren but either I just have a cough or tren is giving me a cough - plus making me sweat like a dog at night. So perhaps I'm not reacting well to it. I'm switching brands in a few weeks so we'll see.

later!

From my past to present I've done Dbol, TestP, TestE, TestC, Sust, Inj Winny, EQ, Durabolin, Deca & TrenE. Damn, Ouch sounds like alot now that I type it all out...lol. :D I had different needs when I was ounger than I do now. I needed mass so DBol and TestC packed it on, but with alot of water. EQ I only did once, but i was happy with the results. Now I have the mass naturally and have gone from being a power lifter to wanting a more aesthetic physique. At this point my favs are TrenE @ 400mg/week and TestE at 500mg/week, and finish it off with a little Winny at the end 100-200mg/week to get dry. I have actually never gone over 600mg of anything, not even test. I do get the sweats from TrenE, but no cough, and I feel like a million bucks. I feel healthy, nutz are chillin, and my blood pressure is down compared to when I am on Deca and no madonna titties either. I have to say, I have always trained hard and taken lower doses like I have listed. I got every last benefit out of gear without pissing it out in the morning. I always was under the inclination that if I didn't use it up anabolically it would go somewhere I didn't want it to go and cause damage. Well, that's just me I guess. :rolleyes:

[tatteredxangelx]

my 1st cycle was great, I put on like 35lbs, but lost it all because I didnt even know what PCT was!! Luckily, when I jumped on again, I grew the same as my first cycle.

After this cycle I am on, my next cycle is going to be 500mg of test/ 400mg of deca ... I havent used deca yet, so I figure my body will suck it up ... this wont be until my natural test returns to normal and stays there for a minute.

and my nuts do not shrink either, at 2g a week, I showed someone last night, and she said everything look fine ... they do occasionaly hurt. I will never use orals again. when i got my blood work done, my white blood cell count was really high and now my doc, needs me to go for more work b/c he thinks I am sick or something. orals also malke my hair fall out ...

Ouch, what is NPP?

[tatteredxangelx]

tren gives me absurd dreams ... REALLY vivid, I enjoy them a lot.

[Kaiser]

they do occasionaly hurt.

That's probably not a really good sign. Have you mentioned this to your doctor?

[Kaiser]

tren gives me absurd dreams ... REALLY vivid, I enjoy them a lot.

This I have heard and we had a discussion over at ProM about this. Someone was getting really violent dreams all of the time.

[tatteredxangelx]

i havent talked to my doctor about my gents, because they hurt sometimes off cycle too ... so it isn't gear related ... and my dermatologist, who monitors my blood work, is the only doctor thats knows about my usage b/c he is more of a "Friend" and not close-minded about steroids ... my other doctor is more so of a fool and would report something like that to the insurance and tell me to stay off ...

[OuchThatHurts]

NPP is just nandrolone phenlypropionate. Much better because if you ask me, that decanoate ester is just to damn extreme for what we do (too long). Not to mention the ester itself takes up like half the molecular weight. NPP is just deca with a half life of 2-3 days (4 tops) - that's half-life in depot. Not your serum half life. In other words, if you go 200mg of deca almost 100mg of it is going to be the ester.

The dreams with tren I think go along with the night sweats. You reach prolonged levels of REM sleep... longer than what might be normal so you dream vividly. DOn't even get me started about some of the weird stuff that has come into my dreams ...

Harry, I think we're a lot a like. I went way up on the test after that sustanon fiasco... damn I hate that stuff.

If it weren't for the bloat and toxicity, I'd stay on dbol for all my cycles. And joint problems with deca? fuggettaboutit... gone.

You guys haven't mentioned how much better your test cycles are with a little bit of provy... not liver toxic, little effect on HPTA, binds to test AND estro receptors.... lowers SHBG... Which means, that's right! More free test!! Every guy who wants more free test raise their hand. See? It worthless on it's own but it sure does help the rest! Hell you could (and people have) use it for PCT!

But cough or no cough, sweats or no sweats, tren is melting the fat off me like butter. And I'm a hard-loser!

[Kaiser]

NPP is just nandrolone phenlypropionate. Much better because if you ask me, that decanoate ester is just to damn extreme for what we do. Not to mention the ester itself takes up like half the molecular weight. NPP is just deca with a half life of 2-3 days (4 tops) - that's half-life in depot. Not your serum half life.

The dreams with tren I think go along with the night sweats. You reach prolonged levels of REM sleep... longer than what might be normal so you dream vividly. DOn't even get me started about some of the weird stuff that has come into my dreams ...

Harry, I think we're a lot a like. I went way up on the test after that sustanon fiasco... damn I hate that stuff.

If it weren't for the bloat and toxicity, I'd stay on dbol for all my cycles. And joint problems with deca? fuggettaboutit... gone.

You guys haven't mentioned how much better your test cycles are with a little bit of provy... not liver toxic, little effect on HPTA, binds to test AND estro receptors.... lowers SHBG... It worthless on it's own but it sure does help the rest! Hell you could (and people have) use it for PCT!

But cough or no cough, sweats or no sweats, tren is melting the fat off me like butter. And I'm a hard-loser!

Your first paragraph may mix him up in a sense to Deca. NPP (Durabolin) is not Deca with a fast ester, it is Nandrolone with a Propionate ester whereas Deca is a Nandrolone with Decanoate ester. I know what you meant though, probably a little early for yout his morning. ;)

Good info on Tren. I had no idea that REM lasted longer. That would mean it is sort of like being on AAS and GHB at the same time huh? One thing I noticed howver with Tren is that I don't cramp up at night believe it or not. Funny because any time I cut water and fat, I wake up violently to one of my calves cramped up.

As far as Proviron, I haven't tried it yet. I do however keep a stock pile on hand in case the soldier ever has a problem. (which he hasn't so far atfer 18 years of gear use) I probably wont use it either. I think just knowing in the back of my head that it is there, and that it is a solution I have not tried that would usually clear up any of those problems is worth it. Sort of a psych approach to sexual well being I guess. Peace of mind that would allow me a piece of ass is how I look at it I guess. My security blanket.

I gotta agree about the fat part. This stuff is amazing like Static said. This is my choice in AAS after all of these years. Glad I waited until now to try it. Almost like a new hope at 35 years old. This is one of the things I wanted you to do Tattered. Start off slow, train hard, and get the most out SMALL amounts of gear at 19 years old. Save some of the big dog stuff till later on in life like our age OTH when you need that extra kick because our natural Test levels are going to be dropping.

Believe it or not, I have never touched an A50 tab so I can't speak with knowledge on it. I just know that it made my friends have some funky health issues so I never went near it.

[OuchThatHurts]

Your first paragraph may mix him up in a sense to Deca. NPP (Durabolin) is not Deca with a fast ester, it is Nandrolone with a Propionate ester whereas Deca is a Nandrolone with Decanoate ester. I know what you meant though, probably a little early for yout his morning. ;)
I'll spare you the details but I got one hell of an ab workout last night! I don't know Har, might have to marry this one.

Okay, as for my error. Hmm... let's get all this wrapped up nice and tight so it's all clear because there is some confusion it seems. I've seen this a few places so let's get some clarification. ***Whoops :o incorrect see below***. A faster acting form of nandrolone is available and is usually attached to the phenylpropionate ester (nandrolone phenylproprionate) or NPP. I haven't seen nandrolone in any other way other the phenlyprop or decanoate. So when people call NPP a form of "fast acting Deca" it's sort of a misnomer. It would be more accurate to say "fast acting nandrolone". Many might not know what nandrolone is, but everyone know what Deca is. The cool thing about the NPP is that it takes effect fast and leaves fast. Which is totally unlike the decanoate form.

[Kaiser]

I'll spare you the details but I got one hell of an ab workout last night! I don't know Har, might have to marry this one.

Okay, as for my error. Hmm... let's get all this wrapped up nice and tight so it's all clear because there is some confusion it seems. I've seen this a few places so let's get some clarification. Durabolin (Deca Durabolin) is the name brand of the generic nandrolone decanoate. The ester makes it very long acting (hence "Dura"). I think since nobody wanted to say "I'm looking for some nanny", people may have just begun to call it deca. Or perhaps it was from the brand name Deca Durabolin released by Organon way back in the sixties. A faster acting form of nandrolone is available and is usually attached to the phenyl propionate ester (nandrolone phenyl proprionate) or NPP. I haven't seen nandrolone in any other way other the phenlyprop or decanoate. So when people call NPP a form of "fast acting Deca" it's sort of a misnomer. It would be more accurate to say "fast acting nandrolone". Many might not know what nandrolone is, but everyone know what Deca is. The cool thing about the NPP is that it takes effect fast and leaves fast. Which is totally unlike the decanoate form.

In all my years of using it, this was never the case. Durabolin (NPP) is different then DecaDurabolin (Deca). Most UG will list them that way also. British Dragon Decabol (Deca) and British Dragon Durabol (Durabolin or NPP).

You can even see them listed different here:

Deca-Durabolin
http://www.steroid.com/Deca.php

Durabolin
http://www.steroid.com/Durabolin.php

Jon, this is one I'm sure of bro. Been using Durabolin since the mid 90s.

As far as your esters, yes NPP is a 3 day affair. That's why I've always kept it on hand. If I'm sore, that shit is da bomb.


Glad to hear you had a good night. Wifey and I fought a little... frisky one I got here... Funny this is this Tren really keeps me cool believe it or not. She just doesn't get to me like she normally does when I'm off gear.

[OuchThatHurts]

In all my years of using it, this was never the case. Durabolin (NPP) is different then DecaDurabolin (Deca). Most UG will list them that way also. British Dragon Decabol (Deca) and British Dragon Durabol (Durabolin or NPP).

You can even see them listed different here:

Deca-Durabolin
http://www.steroid.com/Deca.php

Durabolin
http://www.steroid.com/Durabolin.php

Jon, this is one I'm sure of bro. Been using Durabolin since the mid 90s.

As far as your esters, yes NPP is a 3 day affair. That's why I've always kept it on hand. If I'm sore, that shit is da bomb.
You are correct. I am incorrect. I have always used deca and durabolin interchangably when in fact they are different brand names of different compounds. From Wiki:
Nandrolone is most commonly sold commercially as its decanoate ester (Deca-Durabolin) and less commonly as a phenylpropionate ester (Durabolin).

But I still have one last question... where does nandrolone base come in?

So am I correct here?
NPP = nandrolone phenylprop
Deca = nandrolone decanoate

I'm scratching my head here... you said "NPP (Durabolin) is not Deca with a fast ester, it is Nandrolone with a Propionate ester whereas Deca is a Nandrolone with Decanoate ester."

Was this a typo? Did you mean phenylprop when you said propionate? Or am I still off here?

In either case, I need to edit that post before I confuse someone.

[OuchThatHurts]

As far as tren and the dreams. I can only speculate but there is a ton of info out there regarding androgens and REM sleep. Even fat-burning during REM sleep. If you google "rem sleep""androgens" with quotes you get a good bit of info on these.

I doubt tren has a drug-like effect like GHB (still possible) but rather I would think that it is just so rediculous androgenic AND anabolic that during REM sleep, your activity and emotions run riot. Wouldn't that be an interesting study? Take maybe 30 subjects. Give them normal tren doses and monitor both the duration of time in a REM state as well as have them record on waking as many details of their dreams as possible. Then compare this group to a group given a placebo and assign some point system where each separate emotional component of a dream was summed for both groups? Then insert an electrode into their hypothalamus and.... okay... too far... LOL

[tatteredxangelx]

here goes the nerd convention again :D :p :D

anyone wants to pay for my tren, i will be more than happy to be monitored when i sleep and record my dreams ... plus if it is a legit study ,it would be legal as well right? :eek:

[tatteredxangelx]

ouch, kai ..

if, npp, is pretty much a short acting Deca, why would deca-durbolin be the more common/popular of the 2 available ... I do not see the benefit of an 18 month-lingering ester, over that of a few weeks ... is there some sort of fine print?

[Kaiser]

ouch, kai ..

if, npp, is pretty much a short acting Deca, why would deca-durbolin be the more common/popular of the 2 available ... I do not see the benefit of an 18 month-lingering ester, over that of a few weeks ... is there some sort of fine print?

I would guess because Durabolin has always been almost 3 times the money for the same amount. The ester isn't an 18 month ester on Deca-Durabolin, it just means that it is traceable for 18 months in your blood. Normal Durabolin I believe is somenthing like 12-15 months. It's the Nandralone that stays in your system inactive for a while after it's initial burn. Other than money, there is not as much of a difference between Durabolin and Deca-Durabolin activity. Peopple use TrenA sometimes before TrenE because it has more of a kick. But again on Tren the price is the same. No one wants to give themselves shots every day or EOD unless they have to. Plus I think there are alot of people out there that are not fully aware of the drug itself. The only difference I ever noticed is that Durabolin makes me hold less water and I tend to be able to keep my blood pressure more in check which is good for me since I am naturally on the high side.

[Kaiser]

here goes the nerd convention again :D :p :D

Hehe, yeah, Ouch and I get into these all the time. Geeks I guess. But I can say this, we usually never disagree, and when we do, I really have to make sure I know what I am talking about because that guy is a human textbook... But yeah, we learn off of each other all the time. He taght me something I didn't know in a thread over at ProM about Tren burning fat last week.

[Kaiser]

You are correct. I am incorrect. I have always used deca and durabolin interchangably when in fact they are different brand names of different compounds. From Wiki:
Nandrolone is most commonly sold commercially as its decanoate ester (Deca-Durabolin) and less commonly as a phenylpropionate ester (Durabolin).

But I still have one last question... where does nandrolone base come in?

So am I correct here?
NPP = nandrolone phenylprop
Deca = nandrolone decanoate

I'm scratching my head here... you said "NPP (Durabolin) is not Deca with a fast ester, it is Nandrolone with a Propionate ester whereas Deca is a Nandrolone with Decanoate ester."

Was this a typo? Did you mean phenylprop when you said propionate? Or am I still off here?

In either case, I need to edit that post before I confuse someone.

It was always my understanding that there was no real substantial difference between Propionate and PhenylPropionate ester that is why I always refer to them both as just Prop. I know the "phenyl" has to be something, but do I know what the difference is? Hell no :) My guess is that they initially tried to make a Nandrolon Propionate and something didn't bind correctly so they just added another chemical to make it work correctly. Other than that, I'm not sure but I know both of those esters are 2 day half life esters.

Yes you are correct in this:
NPP = Durabolin = nandrolone phenylprop
Deca = Deca-Durabolin = nandrolone decanoate

[Kaiser]

As far as tren and the dreams. I can only speculate but there is a ton of info out there regarding androgens and REM sleep. Even fat-burning during REM sleep. If you google "rem sleep""androgens" with quotes you get a good bit of info on these.

I doubt tren has a drug-like effect like GHB (still possible) but rather I would think that it is just so rediculous androgenic AND anabolic that during REM sleep, your activity and emotions run riot. Wouldn't that be an interesting study? Take maybe 30 subjects. Give them normal tren doses and monitor both the duration of time in a REM state as well as have them record on waking as many details of their dreams as possible. Then compare this group to a group given a placebo and assign some point system where each separate emotional component of a dream was summed for both groups? Then insert an electrode into their hypothalamus and.... okay... too far... LOL


It does make sense though after experiencing it. It seems like I sleep extremely deep for an hour then wake up to wet sheets and roll over. Then fall back asleep for an hour and wake up again... I do that all night with Tren.

[tatteredxangelx]

tren turned my 4 pack, into a 6 pack in 9 days ... it defeinitelty sheds fat!

[OuchThatHurts]

ouch, kai ..

if, npp, is pretty much a short acting Deca, why would deca-durbolin be the more common/popular of the 2 available ... I do not see the benefit of an 18 month-lingering ester, over that of a few weeks ... is there some sort of fine print?
Textbook?!? Very funny. :mad:
and like your not some kind of mildly insane computer genius?
I think we may have to bear similiar crosses here....

The NPP vs Deca?
Like Kaiser said... just simple economics. Deca is cheaper. NOT CHEAP JUST CHEAPER. And just the metabolites are detected up to 18 months. With the new tests, I heard this could be up to 2 years! But I'm with kaiser on the reasoning so I don't mind paying more. I'm verrrry blood pressure sensitive. Although not that important, but for complicated resons already discussed in previous threads, when you use a shorter ester you get more product. Other words, 250mg of test propionate might give you 230mg of test where 250mg of test cypionate might only give you 190. Don't quote me on those numbers, I haven't looked them up but you get the idea. Also for me, I try to find a products that are not too long acting and not too short. Like any decanoate-estered product? That stuff will linger around for 3 weeks and I like to go on fast and come off fast and go right into therapy. I think it's very counterproductive when you do a 16wk cycle and then have to wait 3 weeks to start PCT. That's a lot of time to lose gains. Throw in a cold or flu and the snot you blow out your nose will be the money and time you invested in that cycle, I promise you that.

One other thing I was hoping to see in this thread is some experiences of gains. I may gain 20lbs on a cycle. Maybe 10. But if I can keep 2-3lbs of that muscle... that's HUGE!!! Look at 3lbs of steak and imagine you added that to your body in 3 or 4 months. I hear people say I kept 25lbs!! I'm not saying they're lying, but lets add those numbers again after PCT. Also too, because I'm an old shit, I can't add the 5-10lbs a year a younger guy could. I haven't a clue what my bodyfat is but there's some abs here at 230 so I'm guessing I could be a pretty darn lean 210. That's 10lbs more then when Kaiser and I first met and I was coming off a diet at a lean 200. If you told me I would gain 2-5 lean lbs a year from here out, I'd be happy as hell. I'm not looking for any more size right now but I would like to focus even more on aesthetics.

You don't think I want to go through life looking like Kaiser do you? :D :p

p.s. kais, cough went away... had a cold. had to do the amoxicillin. Still sweating like pig. But if I can have all this without the cough? I love me some tren! We need to get some t-shirts that say "Body by Fina" - just make sure they have XXXL !!!

[Kaiser]

Textbook?!? Very funny. :mad:
and like your not some kind of mildly insane computer genius?
I think we may have to bear similiar crosses here....

The NPP vs Deca?
Like Kaiser said... just simple economics. Deca is cheaper. NOT CHEAP JUST CHEAPER. And just the metabolites are detected up to 18 months. With the new tests, I heard this could be up to 2 years! But I'm with kaiser on the reasoning so I don't mind paying more. I'm verrrry blood pressure sensitive. Although not that important, but for complicated resons already discussed in previous threads, when you use a shorter ester you get more product. Other words, 250mg of test propionate might give you 230mg of test where 250mg of test cypionate might only give you 190. Don't quote me on those numbers, I haven't looked them up but you get the idea. Also for me, I try to find a products that are not too long acting and not too short. Like any decanoate-estered product? That stuff will linger around for 3 weeks and I like to go on fast and come off fast and go right into therapy. I think it's very counterproductive when you do a 16wk cycle and then have to wait 3 weeks to start PCT. That's a lot of time to lose gains. Throw in a cold or flu and the snot you blow out your nose will be the money and time you invested in that cycle, I promise you that.

One other thing I was hoping to see in this thread is some experiences of gains. I may gain 20lbs on a cycle. Maybe 10. But if I can keep 2-3lbs of that muscle... that's HUGE!!! Look at 3lbs of steak and imagine you added that to your body in 3 or 4 months. I hear people say I kept 25lbs!! I'm not saying they're lying, but lets add those numbers again after PCT. Also too, because I'm an old shit, I can't add the 5-10lbs a year a younger guy could. I haven't a clue what my bodyfat is but there's some abs here at 230 so I'm guessing I could be a pretty darn lean 210. That's 10lbs more then when Kaiser and I first met and I was coming off a diet at a lean 200. If you told me I would gain 2-5 lean lbs a year from here out, I'd be happy as hell. I'm not looking for any more size right now but I would like to focus even more on aesthetics.

You don't think I want to go through life looking like Kaiser do you? :D :p

p.s. kais, cough went away... had a cold. had to do the amoxicillin. Still sweating like pig. But if I can have all this without the cough? I love me some tren! We need to get some t-shirts that say "Body by Fina" - just make sure they have XXXL !!!


You make alot of good points here. and yeah man, I'm trying to get my aesthetics in line now with help from Hernon. I can already see some differences in the pum that I get from his workouts compared to my old regimin. I highly recommend him if you are looking for a change in training thought pattern. He looks at things with a very simple eye. Almost old school.

[Kaiser]

You don't think I want to go through life looking like Kaiser do you? :D :p

I shall call him MiniMe :D

[OuchThatHurts]

I shall call him MiniMe :D
LMAO! good to hear... I haven't heard anyone call me mini anything in a long time!!!