Why I will never run long estered testosterones again

[superbeast22]

After speaking with an ex-IFBB pro friend (who will go unnamed) about AAS (he finally asked if I used because "noone looks like that year round naturally") we sat down and talked for a few hours... I learned a lot, and it all makes sence... side note - he said even during his days when he was at 300lbs+ bulking he never used more than 500 test a week and 400 deca, ever, and never ate over 6000 calories a day in his life... which was interesting to hear (he ate beans and steak for bulking)

Anyhow, I was asking him how come I get acne, my balls get smaller, and my test level goes up, but my sex drive stays the same, and I really dont put on a lot of muscle when I run a long ester like ethanate... even though my blood work confirmed its good.

He told me he HATES ethanate because it releases so slow it just clogs up your receptors and doesnt do too much for ya.... He felt bad for me so he threw 3 vials of test prop my way.

I am one week into using test prop, my sex drive is through the roof, in just a week I have developed a little gyno for the FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE (I have NEVER EVER EVER had ANY side effects like this...) My lifts have all gone up, endurance while lifting is insane... on only 400 a week!!!!!!!

This may be bullshit, but I am passing the word on, the way he explained it to me is that with a short ester, it gets in, binds to the receptor, does its thing, and then is gone, then more comes, binds, then gone, while a long ester sits there and does shit...

Basicly - I have zero water retention, I am hungry as fuck, I am getting leaner no matter what I eat, and I am getting stronger by the day. On ethanate or cypionate (done both) I have NEVER gotton any muscle like this!!

I will never run a long ester again, ever... prop or suspension for me from now on!

[BiggieSteve2]

nice post, its a good read.

curious, do you know what company makes it?

[cornelweaver]

Thats crazy SB. I personally have never run prop. or suspension. Its always been Test E or Test C. Alot of people talk about the cost of Prop but at the same time if you factor in what kind of goals you are trying to achieve with aas then the money difference sounds like it is justified. Keep us up to date on how this is going for you.

[~~<StrengthbyGod>~~]

Superbeast--agreed 110%

I only run test prop. And only 300-400mg a week.

First off, who wants to wait 5 weeks for E or C to kick in, once it does....bloat city, plus when it's releasing, I get bad sides including acne and anger...

Coming off of a long ester is a long shitty process too.

I love test prop. In, results, out...next shot.

[bulldawg305]

very good post Superbeast. i've only done test ethanate, cypionate and super test.... and coming off is hard and it turns my skin to complete shit. havent been happy with my last couple cycles either. currently doing 500mg of test-c and 450 of eq. after talking with StrenthbyGod i've decided to go test prop for my next cycle. your post just got me even more excited about tryin it tho. thanks bro

[kaju]

I love test prop but pinning get old after about week six.

[bulldawg305]

yea im sure. only part im not looking forward too


I love test prop but pinning get old after about week six.

[~~<StrengthbyGod>~~]

very good post Superbeast. i've only done test ethanate, cypionate and super test.... and coming off is hard and it turns my skin to complete shit. havent been happy with my last couple cycles either. currently doing 500mg of test-c and 450 of eq. after talking with StrenthbyGod i've decided to go test prop for my next cycle. your post just got me even more excited about tryin it tho. thanks bro


Much fewer sides, big Dawg :cool:

You are gonna have to teach your lady how to administor your shots. Mine does mine eod but If I had to do each one myself It would get old.

Stealth product is excellent, but I would purchase sterile oil along with your vials to cut the oil. Prop has a sting.

I really do find it to be the most effective test. I was 185 when I started this cycle.

[blackson]

I agree completely superbeast. The other side of this story is there's no need to run these super long cycles of 12 weeks + when running short esters. Run em 6-8 weeks, do your pct take your time off and then run it again, you will do much less damage to your HTPA. I cringe when I see people running 16 week cycles of Enanthate and EQ etc, obviously it's not gonna kill you and it's probably not that bad for you but in my experience just pinning EOD with short esters for short periods of time will yeild less sides, better recovery and gains that are easier to maintain.

[PTE23]

Prop is truly amazing but all alins test work pretty great for me but I wonder if you guys could get these results from sust EOD since it has prop and phenyprop, just a thought as it would make for a much cheaper cycle. Thats the only thing stopping me from prop, its almost the same price and only dosed at 1/3 the dose or so. Also I get annoying test flu on it, and its painful

[PTE23]

Im not all that concerned about running long cycles. Your HPTA is like a used car, it's already been at it's peak and its going downhill from here on out. Might as well replce that shit eventually anyway

[Dr. xopholis]

Very interesting read. Thanks beast. I've been getting tired of the results from test e. Long going on the wait to kick in and get it out. Thanks for your post I'm going prop next time.

[~~<StrengthbyGod>~~]

Prop is truly amazing but all alins test work pretty great for me but I wonder if you guys could get these results from sust EOD since it has prop and phenyprop, just a thought as it would make for a much cheaper cycle. Thats the only thing stopping me from prop, its almost the same price and only dosed at 1/3 the dose or so. Also I get annoying test flu on it, and its painful

Well if Sustanon is your thing, I suggest the BP product. If you check the stealth sustanon lab tests in the lab test forum, you will notice it consists of

Test C
Test Decan :confused:
A smidgen of test prop (13mg)

So, basically, stealth sustanon is a long estered product, with 90% of it consisting of test C and test Decan--the longest test ester

The phenylprop is completely absent and why are the esters changed?

If you change the recipe, you should not call it Sustanon, imo...

Just a heads up

[TopGun1051]

Nice personal info and experience thanks for sharing.

[willie99]

Interesting read. Gives me something to think about.

[wafinale]

Prop is all im ever gonna use.. this thread just sealed the deal on what I was thinking and planning on doing which is PROP @50mg ED... I love pinning so it works for me... It feels like im pinning power right into me (obviously in my head) but i still love the feeling... i just pin in the body part im working out that day so i have no prop soreness the next day.

[superbeast22]

First of all... cost? you get what you pay for.... thats as simple as that

The brand is XT Labs.... Not promoting them at all, it just so happens thats what he gave me.

Personally, I enjoy injecting, I have associated it with getting stronger in my brain! :)

[PTE23]

Well if Sustanon is your thing, I suggest the BP product. If you check the stealth sustanon lab tests in the lab test forum, you will notice it consists of

Test C
Test Decan :confused:
A smidgen of test prop (13mg)

So, basically, stealth sustanon is a long estered product, with 90% of it consisting of test C and test Decan--the longest test ester

The phenylprop is completely absent and why are the esters changed?

If you change the recipe, you should not call it Sustanon, imo...

Just a heads up

damn I guess I should have just got some cyp. Thanks for the heads up

[panther#1]

First of all... cost? you get what you pay for.... thats as simple as that

The brand is XT Labs.... Not promoting them at all, it just so happens thats what he gave me.

Personally, I enjoy injecting, I have associated it with getting stronger in my brain! :)


Beast, how are you going with the gyno? Do you know if its related to the prop or the tren?

[superbeast22]

Beast, how are you going with the gyno? Do you know if its related to the prop or the tren?

I am not sure, its very very small under one nipple but its definatly a sensitive lump!!! When I was a kid and first hit puberty I got gyno and just squeezed the shit outa them until they went away.. maybe ill do that with this!

[ironfreak83]

I get better gains with cyp than prop. Prop is very good however for 3 weeks before my meets to help crank up the androgen levels. You just gotta remember that everyone is different and each person is going to react differently to everything including diet, training, and gear.

[juced_porkchop]

too many shots ill stick to 2 shots a week. bloat? a lil AI will fix that.
running trenA i didnt even like but thats just from pinning first 4 weeks yah w/e but it gets annoying eod shots and its just more risk in my eye's.

ill stick to long ester, but to each there own. still got some trenA but ill use that next spring then thats it.

[Gambit]

How many injection sites do you rotate? I only hit delts and glutes, so basically 4 spots. For Prop, I'd be injecting the same spot every 8 days. I guess if you move the spot an inch per rotation it's more like 8 spots. I've been thinking of ways to incorporate prop in my next cycle:

Test E 250mg EW Week 1-12
Test P 50 mg EOD Week 13-16
EQ 400mg EW Week 1-15

The idea with Test Prop at the end would be to allow for faster transition to PCT.

[superbeast22]

How many injection sites do you rotate? I only hit delts and glutes, so basically 4 spots. For Prop, I'd be injecting the same spot every 8 days. I guess if you move the spot an inch per rotation it's more like 8 spots. I've been thinking of ways to incorporate prop in my next cycle:

Test E 250mg EW Week 1-12
Test P 50 mg EOD Week 13-16
EQ 400mg EW Week 1-15

The idea with Test Prop at the end would be to allow for faster transition to PCT.

I shoot legs and delts... but my stuff is EO based and does not hurt at all so I dont even have to rotate really...

[roidboy]

thanks for confusing me ...

i just got my dbol and about to order deca and test e. wtf do i do now ?

[willie99]

lol ...

just go with what works for you roidboy ... I like your name :p

I mostly done Test E + Eq cycles and Im very happy with the results. I've only done one short Prop cycle so cannot really compare. but if E worked for you in the past ... why not do it again?!

[panther#1]

thanks for confusing me ...

i just got my dbol and about to order deca and test e. wtf do i do now ?


You will be just fine with what you are ordering:D. Many a good results with test e and deca.

[roidboy]

Yeah fukit i will run my deca and test e with the dbol and winny cycle.
i used that sytheselen/tine crap for a month doing pins ED and fuk that, i was over it really quick and in a hurry ...

Each to there own guys i might try it on my 3rd cycle. i do cardio every second day so it should hold back the bloat and dbol kicker so yeah should be a sweet cycle.

very confussing game this roids every 1 is like read more do research then u read and u think ahhh yeah im sweet then u read stuff like this to set u back in your chair,palms over your face shaking your head thinkin wtf now ahhhhhh.

but get advice and try basic cycles i think.

[TopGun1051]

Thanks for all the great info guys...think i'm gonna try Prop in the future...I have always liked the results people seem to get and I don't really care about the extra pinning. Kind of look forward to it actually.

[The BB Monad]

I'm definately going to try a Prop cycle in the future, probably in December when I come from China... What should I run with it though? If Deca is a long ester and so is Eq, what bulker would go nicely with the Prop to run a short cycle, say 8 weeks?

[joe4fsu]

Beast.. if you are liking prop.. I would like to introduce you to Omnadren... my favorite test fyi

[~~<StrengthbyGod>~~]

I'm definately going to try a Prop cycle in the future, probably in December when I come from China... What should I run with it though? If Deca is a long ester and so is Eq, what bulker would go nicely with the Prop to run a short cycle, say 8 weeks?

If a short estered bulker is what you seek, BB, I suggest you run

Test Prop and Deca PhenylProp (NPP) EOD injections.

For a cutter,

Test Prop and Masteron EOD injections

[~~<StrengthbyGod>~~]

Beast.. if you are liking prop.. I would like to introduce you to Omnadren... my favorite test fyi

If you can find it, that is.

[TopGun1051]

Beast.. if you are liking prop.. I would like to introduce you to Omnadren... my favorite test fyi

Joe isn't Omnadren a multi ester compound much like Sustanon?

[joe4fsu]

it is but omna kicks in way sooner than Sus... its like prop on juice!

[giff]

it is but omna kicks in way sooner than Sus... its like prop on juice!

haha love it

[TopGun1051]

it is but omna kicks in way sooner than Sus... its like prop on juice!

Not intending on highjacking this thread but when does Sus start kicking in BTW? I'm on mysecond shot of a 10 week cycle tonight? I was actually supposed to get Omnadren but it was out of stock. I'm really liking the idea of trying a cycle of Prop/Mast next time out.

[~~<StrengthbyGod>~~]

Not intending on highjacking this thread but when does Sus start kicking in BTW? I'm on mysecond shot of a 10 week cycle tonight? I was actually supposed to get Omnadren but it was out of stock. I'm really liking the idea of trying a cycle of Prop/Mast next time out.

If you are on the stealth product, TopGun, then it will be 6 weeks before you explode. The stealth sustanon is mostly test c and test decan.

If you get some sustanon that follows the recipe of prop, isoprop, isocaproate, and decan...you should feel it a few weeks in.

[superbeast22]

I'm definately going to try a Prop cycle in the future, probably in December when I come from China... What should I run with it though? If Deca is a long ester and so is Eq, what bulker would go nicely with the Prop to run a short cycle, say 8 weeks?

EQ is a fast acting compound, even though it has a long ester, the actual hormone is fast acting.

[panther#1]

Hey beast how is the gyno. Did you get on top of that?

[superbeast22]

Hey beast how is the gyno. Did you get on top of that?

haha it seems everyone is interested in my nipples! :o you wouldnt beleive how many PMs i have gotton about my gyno!

Gyno is only in the left nipple, I added some arimixdex and some snapon pliers and it seems to be going away. :cool:

[tpd01883]

Superbeast--agreed 110%

I only run test prop. And only 300-400mg a week.

First off, who wants to wait 5 weeks for E or C to kick in, once it does....bloat city, plus when it's releasing, I get bad sides including acne and anger...

Coming off of a long ester is a long shitty process too.

I love test prop. In, results, out...next shot.

Waiting for 5 weeks to have an ester kick in isn't really that bad...Who cares, this is a marathon sport not a sprint.

Also my theory on why short esters seem to be more potent is that you have higher peak blood levels although they're not sustained you get a huge amount of receptor activation in a short time. IE Test suspension packs strength on MUCH Faster than test e. I was using 700mg test suspension a week(100 a day) and it felt much stronger than 1g/week of enanthate. Personally I like to use both. Run about 500-1g of test e for a base and then add in some prop or tren a or suspension on top of it. Then hit some dbol for 4-6 weeks, go back to a long estered test cruise, then hit one more blast phase with test suspension or prop, then another oral blast to finish it off, or harden up before I come off.

Example cycle(this is what I would run, you might want to drop dosages)

Test E: 1g/week 1-14
Test suspension 100mg ed 1-4
Tren a 75mg ed 5-10
Dbol 50mg ed 11-14
Test E down to 500mg ew 15-20
Tren A 75mg ed 17-22

PCT or cruise (probably a lot of cholesterol meds too haha)

Thats similar to the cycle I'm on now, not an exact copy but close.

This incorporates the benefits of short esters and long esters. Long esters give you some great steady gains while the short esters come in and blast you for a little while, rotating the drugs for various reasons. IE tren atleast for me is only tolerable for max of 6 weeks at that dosage. Dbol is liver toxic, suspension injections can leave me with massive pain and I get tired of that after about 4 weeks. Also this minimizes the amount of stress on the liver. The reason I would not kick start with an oral for this cycle is because orals are going to throw cholesterol off much faster than even tren will. On a cycle that long you would want to postpone messing up cholesterol really bad for as long as possible since it may be several months before you can really get it back to where it should be!

[superbeast22]

as usual, good advice... where have u been? havent talked to u in a while bro. hows everything going

[test250]

intresting about gyno, i know a guy at gym who only runs prop & he gets gyno as soon as he starts a cycle. ill stick with long esters ;)

[joe4fsu]

If you can find it, that is.

ah my dear grasshopper.... u are not ready to fight Ty-lon... I can make you the dragon warrior if you chose to do so...

[~~<StrengthbyGod>~~]

ah my dear grasshopper.... u are not ready to fight Ty-lon... I can make you the dragon warrior if you chose to do so...

I will stick to my test prop but I appreciate the advice, sensai:cool:

[Prime]

It doesn't work that way, the cyp with it's ester doesn't bind to anything. It can only bind once the ester is cleaved off. Once it's cleaved off, then it's the same as the prop with the ester cleaved off. The ester just affects release into the blood stream.

Blood levels peak a lot faster with prop. And If you are doing mg for mg then you are doing more test with prop. Ester weight is huge with long esters.

[superbeast22]

It doesn't work that way, the cyp with it's ester doesn't bind to anything. It can only bind once the ester is cleaved off. Once it's cleaved off, then it's the same as the prop with the ester cleaved off. The ester just affects release into the blood stream.

Blood levels peak a lot faster with prop. And If you are doing mg for mg then you are doing more test with prop. Ester weight is huge with long esters.

Just my personal experience, I know the science behind it, but what I feel is totally different than what science says should happen!

[TopGun1051]

It doesn't work that way, the cyp with it's ester doesn't bind to anything. It can only bind once the ester is cleaved off. Once it's cleaved off, then it's the same as the prop with the ester cleaved off. The ester just affects release into the blood stream.

Blood levels peak a lot faster with prop. And If you are doing mg for mg then you are doing more test with prop. Ester weight is huge with long esters.

Hey tell me if my research is wrong here...i'm reading that w/ Cyp and Enth you only end up w/ 60% of actual Test and w/ Prop it's more like 80% after the ester is taken away...is that right?

[Prime]

Hey tell me if my research is wrong here...i'm reading that w/ Cyp and Enth you only end up w/ 60% of actual Test and w/ Prop it's more like 80% after the ester is taken away...is that right?

Sounds about right. The article below makes ester weight sound even more than you stated.

http://www.anabolicsteroids-hormoneknowledge-bigmuscles-drugs.com/testosterone_esters.html

[Prime]

Just my personal experience, I know the science behind it, but what I feel is totally different than what science says should happen!

I have no doubt you feel prop. It's probably safe to say that some individuals cleave esters at slightly different rates.

I'm was mainly directing my post that the test cyp doesn't sit in the receptor site and clog it up.

You have more practical experience than I do with prop and if it dramatically works for you then that's great bro. I really wasn't trying to piss on your parade. :) In fact, your thread has my interest and I plan to try it sometime.

[awelch]

I have no doubt you feel prop. It's probably safe to say that some individuals cleave esters at slightly different rates.

I'm was mainly directing my post that the test cyp doesn't sit in the receptor site and clog it up.

You have more practical experience than I do with prop and if it dramatically works for you then that's great bro. I really wasn't trying to piss on your parade. :) In fact, your thread has my interest and I plan to try it sometime.

You think the heavier ester of enanthate would be enough for 100mg EOD shots of prop to be almost equivalent to 500mg/week enanth?

[superbeast22]

While the ester does weigh less in prop, I gain better off 300 prop than 500 long ester... so the ester weight has no effect.... Prime - I know you werent trying to piss on my parade... Its cool man I am just sayin that as weird as it sounds, it works :)

[Prime]

You think the heavier ester of enanthate would be enough for 100mg EOD shots of prop to be almost equivalent to 500mg/week enanth?

Yes. Pretty much. EOD is roughly 350mg of Prop which calculates to 259mg of active T, and 500mg of Test E comes out to roughly 275mg of active T. Prop hits harder and faster so it probably would be better - as Superbeast is confirming.

[Prime]

While the ester does weigh less in prop, I gain better off 300 prop than 500 long ester... so the ester weight has no effect.... Prime - I know you werent trying to piss on my parade... Its cool man I am just sayin that as weird as it sounds, it works :)

I wonder what the mechanism is that is working for you so well. Sounds plausible to me bro - lots of people swear by prop. I wonder if you front loaded Test E the first week, lets say 1000mg, and then 2nd week and so on at 500mg if you'd feel a kick like the prop.

[musclemd]

I'm convinced- I have only run test e plus EQ or anavar.
I really hate coming off- acne well after post cycle meds., bloating while on etc. etc.
Short cycles from now on. Thanks for everyone's input.

[superbeast22]

I wonder what the mechanism is that is working for you so well. Sounds plausible to me bro - lots of people swear by prop. I wonder if you front loaded Test E the first week, lets say 1000mg, and then 2nd week and so on at 500mg if you'd feel a kick like the prop.

I dont know, Ive tried front loading test e and shit, never seemed to help. Prop is my favorite... maybe its cuz I am getting so much more test in prop than I am with ethanate, although i run 350 prop and i feel like a god, 600mg eth i dont feel much