Peptidoglycan's cycle log

[peptidoglycan]

1st Pin was last night. Everything went well. Kinda had a hard time aspirating it since it was tough to one handedly pull the plunger up while trying to keep steady. so i did alittle and just plunged it down. i was a bit nervious soooo.. ya. haha. Used precaution with everything. Very excited to kick it off. Here is all the stats and what i ate today and will be a ruff estimate of what i will be eating throughout the cycle. I'm getting dunked in the hydrostatic tank this Friday to see where my body fat is. i weighed in today at 190.8.. it was in the morning. Been a little irritable today but i think its just cuse i got some bad luck today. Thanks everyone for all the support and the Great Advice i hope to hear from you all on this one... Jello, PTE23,Shortstop,Steak,Willie99,OJS,Alin,Sliva32,Js tforme,joe4fsu, ronnie, and giff... just to name a few.

Cycle:

TEST Weeks 1-14 EQ Weeks 1-12
Mon: Test E 250mg/ml Equipoise 200mg/ml
Thur: Test E 250mg/ml Equipoise 200mg/ml
Winny Weeks 12-16

PCT: Weeks 16-18
Nolva Clomid on a descending dose plan

POST PCT Weeks 18-20

Clen on a pyramid dosage plan


The Test will be ran for 14 weeks i believe and EQ will last 12 unfortunately i have 2 vials of EQ and 3 of test. so this is how i could work them to come real close to matching up end times. ya never know might come up shorter depends how much stuff i lose in the process.

DIET:

Breakfast:
1 12oz Orange Juice full pulp
1 2/3 Cup Oatmeal
6 Eggs One Yolk 6 Whites
2 pieces Toast w/Light Smart Butter with light honey
1 1/2 cup Blueberries
1 Banana
2 Tbs Peanut Butter Adams natural chunky

Post Workout
2 Scoops Waxy Maise Also has 50g of sugar and a creatine matrix
1 and half scoop of Isopure Protein

Lunch
1 Big Sandwich light hummus, no cheese, turkey ham, all veggies, avocado, mustard and sourdough bread
2 cups of Whole Goat Milk

Mid Snack
16 oz Bean rice ham soup
1 cup cottage cheese

Before Dinner snack
1 Meal Replacement shake (Muscle Milk)
1 Bagel

Dinner
1 10oz Steak or 8 to 10 oz chicken or 8 to 10 oz fish
1 cup Veggies
1/2 cup of cooked rice (very low since it is about 8 or 9pm now)

Pre Sleep Shake
1 1/2 scoop of casein

Anyone with experience mind telling me when they actually felt it or it kicked in? or any mods to the diet?

STARTING WEIGHT 192

[giff]

cycle looks spot on, let us know how the hydro weighing goes.....just one thing i would add. i was a bit crude whilst looking at your protein intake but i got around 200-250g ish ami correct? this might work well for you but maybe you could bump it up a bit?? but if it works for you go for it.

[jstforme]

what are your numbers as far as cals, protein, carbs etc?

[peptidoglycan]

cycle looks spot on, let us know how the hydro weighing goes.....just one thing i would add. i was a bit crude whilst looking at your protein intake but i got around 200-250g ish ami correct? this might work well for you but maybe you could bump it up a bit?? but if it works for you go for it.
When i looked at it i thought the same thing. I didn't add exact i just estimated. protein intake is fairly low for a cycle from what ive been reading. ... but the sandwich has about a half pound of meat.. Its alot of food to break down.. i know half of them by heart but i need to get exacts. i will do this today and post an update on caloric intake and break down Protiens, Carbs and fats for ya'll and for me too.. thanks for the input giff.

[peptidoglycan]

what are your numbers as far as cals, protein, carbs etc?

ill get those numbers by this evening for sure. it kinda looks low but i estimated 3,500 to 4,000 cals but the ratios look off. ill have to break it down better.

[PTE23]

When I looked at the diet I thought it may be low on protein, especially for a first cycle, dont let that be a limiting factor for your gains, I see that alot, you may be better off with another 100 grams or so throughout the day. But looks awesome man and keep us updated. Very exciting

[peptidoglycan]

When I looked at the diet I thought it may be low on protein, especially for a first cycle, dont let that be a limiting factor for your gains, I see that alot, you may be better off with another 100 grams or so throughout the day. But looks awesome man and keep us updated. Very exciting

Will do im doing the math now to find out exacts. how your crazy year cycle going?

[jstforme]

ive never been able to eat like you. i dont have the time or patience to measure out this and that and separating egg whites everyday for months and months. im getting better but my diets, both bulking and cutting have always been real simple, that way i wont stray. instead of writing out a diet first, then calculating the numbers. i figure out my numbers first(what i need for my goal), then look at what foods i have to choose from, for me its either steak or fish for meat. i hate slaving over the sink cutting and pulling fat and gristle off of chicken, when i eat chicken breast i hate when i see or taste any fat, steak is a different story though;) but anyways so ill find out what i know i can eat everyday without getting tired of it. then i calculate how much of those foods i need per day to get to the numbers that i need. for example my cutting diet only has 5 "ingredients" in it, oatmeal, fish, protein, juice and EV olive oil. everything is eaten with out condiments or spices. it took a little time but im used to the plain food now.

if someone prepared my food for me ED, id go for egg whites and tasty sandwichs everyday! but i found that when things start getting complicated is when sometimes ill say fuck it and eat something that tastes really good and really bad for me

[peptidoglycan]

ok i did the math. not including the soup i usually have . because it changes daily at my school and i just cant keep tabs on it.

Fats : 114 Carbs: 400 Protien: 318

Total Calories 3,898

[Jello]

Cycle looks good, diet is pretty close. I would up the protein a little but pretty solid. You are going to like that combo you picked, should start noticing gains in a few weeks. I was in about 4 1/2 weeks when I really noticed how much I was getting out of them.

[PTE23]

Ha ha, it was going great but bloodwork was kinda off, cholesterol too high and HDL is all fucked so I added hCG and Ill be starting PCT in 2-3 weeks :( Your protein is higher than I thought, 300 grams should be good to go. Keep us posted bro, good luck

[jstforme]

diet looks good man thanks

[PitViper33]

a good high protein bar would put a nice touch in your diet there cheap too

[peptidoglycan]

Cycle looks good, diet is pretty close. I would up the protein a little but pretty solid. You are going to like that combo you picked, should start noticing gains in a few weeks. I was in about 4 1/2 weeks when I really noticed how much I was getting out of them.

HAHA excellent well thanks for helping me pick the combo.... i think it had to do alot with your experience on it when i was researching my combo.. its easier to establish a cycle when you know someone who has first hand knowledge or experience so you can combine that knowledge with your research. also i received a lot of feedback on combining win at the end. i feel like im poofing up but im sure its cuse im not used to eating so much.. i believe im going to clean up a bit like lower my sodium cuse im alittle poofy for my taste and well thats just my genetics i puff depending on my sodium and water intake levels... im drinking a gallon a day that is stright water . Oj and tea and all that jazz is on the side.

[peptidoglycan]

Ha ha, it was going great but bloodwork was kinda off, cholesterol too high and HDL is all fucked so I added hCG and Ill be starting PCT in 2-3 weeks :( Your protein is higher than I thought, 300 grams should be good to go. Keep us posted bro, good luck

Damn i get my blood results tommorrow. ya grains and legumes had to do with some hiden protien but alot came from that big slab of meat at night and the 7 eggs in the morning. i upped my post workout protien to two scoops as well so now im preooollly hitting 350-365 in protien a day.

Well good for you get off and get healthy for a bit.

[peptidoglycan]

ive never been able to eat like you. i dont have the time or patience to measure out this and that and separating egg whites everyday for months and months. im getting better but my diets, both bulking and cutting have always been real simple, that way i wont stray. instead of writing out a diet first, then calculating the numbers. i figure out my numbers first(what i need for my goal), then look at what foods i have to choose from, for me its either steak or fish for meat. i hate slaving over the sink cutting and pulling fat and gristle off of chicken, when i eat chicken breast i hate when i see or taste any fat, steak is a different story though;) but anyways so ill find out what i know i can eat everyday without getting tired of it. then i calculate how much of those foods i need per day to get to the numbers that i need. for example my cutting diet only has 5 "ingredients" in it, oatmeal, fish, protein, juice and EV olive oil. everything is eaten with out condiments or spices. it took a little time but im used to the plain food now.

if someone prepared my food for me ED, id go for egg whites and tasty sandwichs everyday! but i found that when things start getting complicated is when sometimes ill say fuck it and eat something that tastes really good and really bad for me

I have never ate like this and i tell you its the hardest part of my day.

[countryboyWVU]

Eatin is the hardest for me also, im about to run the same cycle as you but a-bombs the first 4 weeks!

Its gonna be fun man. good luck!

[peptidoglycan]

Eatin is the hardest for me also, im about to run the same cycle as you but a-bombs the first 4 weeks!

Its gonna be fun man. good luck!

Haha its fun already.. i almost compete against myself. my stomach says no but my mind says yes more! Ya i am definably getting some GI distress lol.. i used the restroom 4 times today and i think another toilet session is about to commence. I got a real suttle headache though i dunno why. Good luck to you too! when you starting?

[peptidoglycan]

OH ya another question guys... how about routines. This is what im doing. hour each session. ill add cardio once a week. The actual exercises vary all the time when i hit the gym i try not to do the same exercises twice besides the main compound mass builders such as squats, bench press, dead lifts etc.

Monday: CHEST
Tuesday: ARMS
Wednesday: QUADS AND HAMS
Thursday: BACK
Friday: SHOULDERS AND CALVES
Saturday or Sunday: ABS

What do you guys think good for massing? I do heavy and add supersets flushes and a whole lot of diff techniques to switch it up. oh and ive been hearing something about a 14 week cycle is to long without HCG.. what would you guys say?

[giff]

as far as routines its whatever works for you. everyone is different. hcg is not a must but its cheap so its good practice to use it. 500iu every 5 days or something like that.

[jstforme]

oh and ive been hearing something about a 14 week cycle is to long without HCG.. what would you guys say?

i think this varies from user to user

[Jello]

Like Giff said, pic a routine that YOUR body responds to. You know what your weak body parts are, so train those first in the week and work toward the better parts of your physique. As far as HCG goes, I don't run any cycle without it anymore. I recover sooo much faster with it.

[peptidoglycan]

SECOND PIN

Weight today is 196. Got bloodwork back all is extremely healthy :) The second pin was with my left hand so it was alittle shaky. i took my time to aspirate this time no blood. its a little sore but nothing out of the ordinary. it goes in real smooth. i take about a 45 sec per injection. take my time. i rushed alittle at the end though because i was getting pretty shaky.. I have notice a slight increase in aggressivness maybe just my mind. so far so good cant wait till week three. i get dunk in the hydrostatic tank tommorrow so i will edit this blog with an update on that.. stats as far as starting measurments and Bf fat. I dunno all i can think about tonight is flexing and lifting tomorrow morning.

Test: 449
Free Test: 9.98
SHBG: 24.9
LDL:45
HDL:53

[peptidoglycan]

Like Giff said, pic a routine that YOUR body responds to. You know what your weak body parts are, so train those first in the week and work toward the better parts of your physique. As far as HCG goes, I don't run any cycle without it anymore. I recover sooo much faster with it.

im not going to die without it am i? second cycle do you think i can let it go this one?

[PTE23]

If you are going to stay on over 4 months I suggest hCG use, but if not it's kind of personal preference but you will recover regardless

[Jello]

im not going to die without it am i? second cycle do you think i can let it go this one?

:DSmartass. I know a couple guys that have never used it in any cycle and have no intention to use it in future cycles. I just found with my body I recover a lot faster when I use it, so now I don't do any cycle without it. Remember the faster you recover the more gains you will keep.

[peptidoglycan]

:DSmartass. I know a couple guys that have never used it in any cycle and have no intention to use it in future cycles. I just found with my body I recover a lot faster when I use it, so now I don't do any cycle without it. Remember the faster you recover the more gains you will keep.

haha last time i ate pickles and that worked pretty well as an alternitive to pct. one pickle before and after your work out. try it and you'll hate me forever.

Ok so i got tanked today.. i dont believe it. i got pinched at 7% and the tank said i was 11% or 14% somewhere in there i dunked 3 times and i got 3 different in that range. Fuckin A ... i can see separation in the shoulders and my legs. only place i see fat is those damn love handles and alittle tit fat. thats all though. oh well she told me to do 30 min of cardio 5 days a week... i said what? in disbelief.. do you think i need this much cardio to stay lean or get leaner? i think i will 120 bpm that shit on those days so i dont waste muscle.

[PTE23]

Hey any updates on your cycle bud?

[Jello]

haha last time i ate pickles and that worked pretty well as an alternitive to pct. one pickle before and after your work out. try it and you'll hate me forever.

Ok so i got tanked today.. i dont believe it. i got pinched at 7% and the tank said i was 11% or 14% somewhere in there i dunked 3 times and i got 3 different in that range. Fuckin A ... i can see separation in the shoulders and my legs. only place i see fat is those damn love handles and alittle tit fat. thats all though. oh well she told me to do 30 min of cardio 5 days a week... i said what? in disbelief.. do you think i need this much cardio to stay lean or get leaner? i think i will 120 bpm that shit on those days so i dont waste muscle.

The problem with the tanks is that if you don't get all the air out you won't get accurate readings, and that explains the three different readings. Figure you are somewhere between 7 and 14. Can't tell from your picture but if you get some close ups of your back and legs maybe we can take a shot at it for you. If you are trying to drop b.f. then you should start with at least 30 mins of cardio a day and work up to 45 to an hour.

[peptidoglycan]

The problem with the tanks is that if you don't get all the air out you won't get accurate readings, and that explains the three different readings. Figure you are somewhere between 7 and 14. Can't tell from your picture but if you get some close ups of your back and legs maybe we can take a shot at it for you. If you are trying to drop b.f. then you should start with at least 30 mins of cardio a day and work up to 45 to an hour.

I meant to say on a massing cycle should i do that much cardio. i really am not trying to get leaner cuse maintain what i am now. ive been eating so much stuffing food. (its getting easier) that it seems contradictory to do cardio that much. i say once a week just for health but shit. Ok i will get some shots of my up here. oh ya and that picture is me last summer at 6 or 7% on my way down to 3.6% (pinched) .

[peptidoglycan]

Hey any updates on your cycle bud?

Yes actually i just sat down on my sore recently pinned butt..

THIRD PIN

Ouch i felt a tiny nerve in there as i had the injection in. nothing crazy just slight so slight tingle.. Very smooth. The test and EQ mix goes in really well. this time it seemed really easy to aspirate i got bubbles so i proceeded with caution. Taking my time admiring the tranquility of it all.
During this time i had an epiphany. I realized ive been pinning to much EQ! Well not toooo much but to much for how long i want it to last. Each notch on the syringe equals 25mg/ml well i thought previously that it was 50... which makes no sense i know. soooo i have been pinning 450mg/ml of EQ and 500mg/ml of Test Weekly. Damn at this rate i will only have 10 weeks worth of EQ and 15 Weeks Worth of Test. Thats if i get every drop from my vials. IS THIS BAD>???
i can change the dose now and maybe make it up too 12th week of only 300 mg/ml of EQ on the last week.. whatcha think?

Other than that. I feel great no sides little retention of water mainly noticeable at night. I started feeling something in the gym last sunday on calfs. Chest today was awesome as well.

HOLY SHIT Chicks have never been so fine. i feel like a freaking beast on to pouncing on some chicks. i have been so fucking horny and all these girls look soooo hot. i like don't give a shit if im staring .. i usually and very peripheral when it comes to scoping women but damn i have just became straight up raging. Im def usually decent about things and still am but if im with my training partner i will verbalize the presence of a hot chick and stratigize a way to jump out from behind the elliptical and mount that shit jk. i feel as if my instincts are heightened. IS THIS NORMAL???? PTE23, JELLO! HELP! IS THIS ALL IN MY HEAD? Or is it possable im starting to feel some effects?

[PTE23]

this is the test kicking in, enjoy it. I love it. Now you understand why it is so hard to make myself come off test lol. Youll start seeing the gains in strenght and mass very soon. Keep updating

[bod1ggity]

ok i did the math. not including the soup i usually have . because it changes daily at my school and i just cant keep tabs on it.

Fats : 114 Carbs: 400 Protien: 318

Total Calories 3,898
you should feel the test in about 2 weeks, the eq really kicks in for me around the 6th week... I would run 100mg more twice a week since I dont think EQ is too usefull below 600mg.... I try to do 3mg/lb of bw per wk... that just the way my body reacts to it. I would up your protein by about 40-50g/ed. And if I was you I would dump that shitty muscle milk and replace it with some synthetec protein or bev international. I would be taking in more than one whole egg, in fact I would take in 6 whole eggs and say fuck the egg whites (your missing alot of good growth nutrition with egg whites over whole eggs, and im not just talking protein wise). And I would drop the Casein at night and replace it with a whey isolate since Casein is an inferior protein and you dont digest protein while you sleep anyways, its just wasting money and your falling for a gimick made up by suplement companies to sell shitty protein for the price of superior protein.

[peptidoglycan]

you should feel the test in about 2 weeks, the eq really kicks in for me around the 6th week... I would run 100mg more twice a week since I dont think EQ is too usefull below 600mg.... I try to do 3mg/lb of bw per wk... that just the way my body reacts to it. I would up your protein by about 40-50g/ed. And if I was you I would dump that shitty muscle milk and replace it with some synthetec protein or bev international. I would be taking in more than one whole egg, in fact I would take in 6 whole eggs and say fuck the egg whites (your missing alot of good growth nutrition with egg whites over whole eggs, and im not just talking protein wise). And I would drop the Casein at night and replace it with a whey isolate since Casein is an inferior protein and you dont digest protein while you sleep anyways, its just wasting money and your falling for a gimick made up by suplement companies to sell shitty protein for the price of superior protein.

Where can i read more on this? (casien being a gimmick) intresting.. if true yes i am fooled. What growth factors do you speak of with egg yolks? And what should i expect as "feelings" go when it comes to EQ? Thanks for the info appriciate the dif point of view.

[peptidoglycan]

this is the test kicking in, enjoy it. I love it. Now you understand why it is so hard to make myself come off test lol. Youll start seeing the gains in strenght and mass very soon. Keep updating

HAHA ya its nuts. my next pin is thursday.. will update. i have posing practice friday too.

[Jello]

Yes actually i just sat down on my sore recently pinned butt..

THIRD PIN

Ouch i felt a tiny nerve in there as i had the injection in. nothing crazy just slight so slight tingle.. Very smooth. The test and EQ mix goes in really well. this time it seemed really easy to aspirate i got bubbles so i proceeded with caution. Taking my time admiring the tranquility of it all.
During this time i had an epiphany. I realized ive been pinning to much EQ! Well not toooo much but to much for how long i want it to last. Each notch on the syringe equals 25mg/ml well i thought previously that it was 50... which makes no sense i know. soooo i have been pinning 450mg/ml of EQ and 500mg/ml of Test Weekly. Damn at this rate i will only have 10 weeks worth of EQ and 15 Weeks Worth of Test. Thats if i get every drop from my vials. IS THIS BAD>???
i can change the dose now and maybe make it up too 12th week of only 300 mg/ml of EQ on the last week.. whatcha think?

Other than that. I feel great no sides little retention of water mainly noticeable at night. I started feeling something in the gym last sunday on calfs. Chest today was awesome as well.

HOLY SHIT Chicks have never been so fine. i feel like a freaking beast on to pouncing on some chicks. i have been so fucking horny and all these girls look soooo hot. i like don't give a shit if im staring .. i usually and very peripheral when it comes to scoping women but damn i have just became straight up raging. Im def usually decent about things and still am but if im with my training partner i will verbalize the presence of a hot chick and stratigize a way to jump out from behind the elliptical and mount that shit jk. i feel as if my instincts are heightened. IS THIS NORMAL???? PTE23, JELLO! HELP! IS THIS ALL IN MY HEAD? Or is it possable im starting to feel some effects?

If you were only pinning 25 and thought you were pinning 50, you will have more left over not less. You are only going to notice it getting harder and harder (no pun intended) to ignore women around you. I get done with my wife and want it again almost immediately. I picture all the different things I could be doing with every woman I see, even the not very attractive:eek: When that EQ kicks in you will suddenly notice that whatever weight you can barely get 5 or 6 reps with, you can now bang out 8-10. THis is part of the reason that we tell noobs not to use gear until they have a year under the bar. The sudden increase in strength is hard on the tendons and if they are not ready for it you can damage them.

[bod1ggity]

Where can i read more on this? (casien being a gimmick) intresting.. if true yes i am fooled. What growth factors do you speak of with egg yolks? And what should i expect as "feelings" go when it comes to EQ? Thanks for the info appriciate the dif point of view.
Egg Yolk Facts:
- The yolk or yellow portion makes up about 33% of the liquid weight of the egg.
- The yolk contains all of the fat in the egg and a little less than half of the protein.
- With the exception of riboflavin and niacin, the yolk contains a higher proportion of the egg's vitamins than the white.
- All of the egg's vitamins A, D and E are in the yolk.
- Egg yolks are one of the few foods naturally containing vitamin D.
- The yolk also contains more phosphorus, manganese, iron, iodine, copper, and calcium than the white, and it contains all of the zinc.

But aren’t eggs high in cholesterol? Cholesterol is not a fat. It is a waxy, fat-like substance produced by all animals, including humans. Cholesterol is needed for many bodily functions and serves to insulate nerve fibers, maintain cell walls and produce vitamin D, various hormones and digestive juices. Cholesterol is produced by the liver.

There is a difference between dietary cholesterol (the cholesterol you consume in foods like eggs) and blood cholesterol (the cholesterol in your bloodstream, also called serum cholesterol.)



Dietary cholesterol is present in varying amounts in some foods, such as meat, poultry, seafood, eggs, and dairy products. Dietary cholesterol does not automatically become blood cholesterol when you eat it. Most blood cholesterol is made by your body and varies from body to body.



People get increased blood cholesterol because they are not taking care of their livers. They don’t eat their fruits and vegetables, their gall bladders are backed up, they harbor anger and resentment, and irritate their liver with alcohol, food additives, trans-fats, sugar, and white flour which overwork the liver preventing it from keeping up with detoxification.

[bod1ggity]

Egg Yolk Facts:
- The yolk or yellow portion makes up about 33% of the liquid weight of the egg.
- The yolk contains all of the fat in the egg and a little less than half of the protein.
- With the exception of riboflavin and niacin, the yolk contains a higher proportion of the egg's vitamins than the white.
- All of the egg's vitamins A, D and E are in the yolk.
- Egg yolks are one of the few foods naturally containing vitamin D.
- The yolk also contains more phosphorus, manganese, iron, iodine, copper, and calcium than the white, and it contains all of the zinc.

But aren’t eggs high in cholesterol? Cholesterol is not a fat. It is a waxy, fat-like substance produced by all animals, including humans. Cholesterol is needed for many bodily functions and serves to insulate nerve fibers, maintain cell walls and produce vitamin D, various hormones and digestive juices. Cholesterol is produced by the liver.

There is a difference between dietary cholesterol (the cholesterol you consume in foods like eggs) and blood cholesterol (the cholesterol in your bloodstream, also called serum cholesterol.)



Dietary cholesterol is present in varying amounts in some foods, such as meat, poultry, seafood, eggs, and dairy products. Dietary cholesterol does not automatically become blood cholesterol when you eat it. Most blood cholesterol is made by your body and varies from body to body.



People get increased blood cholesterol because they are not taking care of their livers. They don’t eat their fruits and vegetables, their gall bladders are backed up, they harbor anger and resentment, and irritate their liver with alcohol, food additives, trans-fats, sugar, and white flour which overwork the liver preventing it from keeping up with detoxification.
By throwing out the yolk and only eating egg whites, you're essentially throwing out the most nutrient dense, antioxidant-rich, vitamin and mineral loaded portion of the egg. The yolks contain so many B-vitamins, trace minerals, vitamin A, folate, choline, lutein, and other powerful nutrients... it's not even worth trying to list them all.

In fact, the egg whites are almost devoid of nutrition compared to the yolks.

Even the protein in egg whites isn't as powerful without the yolks to balance out the amino acid profile and make the protein more bio-available. Not to even mention that the egg yolks from free range chickens are loaded with omega-3 fatty acids.

Yolks contain more than 90% of the calcium, iron, phosphorus, zinc, thiamin, B6, folate, and B12, and panthothenic acid of the egg. In addition, the yolks contain ALL of the fat soluble vitamins A, D, E, and K in the egg, as well as ALL of the essential fatty acids.

And now the common objection I get all the time when I say that the yolks are the most nutritious part of the egg...

[bod1ggity]

Where can i read more on this? (casien being a gimmick) intresting.. if true yes i am fooled. What growth factors do you speak of with egg yolks? And what should i expect as "feelings" go when it comes to EQ? Thanks for the info appriciate the dif point of view.

casein, which makes up 80% of milk protein, and whey, which comprises the other 20%. While whey is digested rapidly, casein interacts with acids in the stomach and precipitates, forming curds, causing casein protein to be digested rather slowly.

If you’ve looked at any of the marketing for protein supplements over the past decade, you are no doubt familiar with the concept of “fast” and “slow” proteins already.

You may have even been persuaded by this marketing to take a protein supplement which supposedly contains casein, to achieve a “time-release” effect of your protein supplementation.

If that’s the case you may want to read this closely. There are several things wrong with so-called “casein” supplements that the supplement companies surely don’t want you to know.

First off, the VAST majority of so-called “casein” supplements on the market are comprised not of casein, but an overly processed variant of casein called calcium caseinate.

Calcium Caseinate IS NOT Casein

The production of caseinate protein begins with skim milk which has been pasteurized at 72 C (162 F) for 15 – 20 seconds. This starting material is similar to what you would find in skim milk from your grocery store for example.

When you read about all of the additional processing which this milk undergoes to make caseinate powders, you should ask yourself if there are any harmful changes that take place when protein goes from fresh milk to a powder sitting on a shelf at your local supplement store. There’s a lot of wishful thinking in the food processing industry, and they’d like you to believe that their processed foods are as safe and nutritious as whole fresh foods. But when you know how these products are made, you may come to different conclusions.

So, this skim milk is first processed with acid (usually hydrochloric acid) to coagulate and separate the casein protein from the watery whey.

Then this “acid casein” as it is called, is washed and often dried. By this time in the production, protein denaturation has already begun.

Then, this casein is reacted with more chemical reagents (alkali, not acids this time) to produce mineral caseinates. Sodium caseinate is made by reating acid casein with sodium hydroxide (or lye), and calcium caseinate is made by reacting acid casein with calcium hydroxide (or lime).

In buffering the acid casein, these potentially harsh chemicals can cause even more of the protein to become denatured, transforming them into potentially toxic compounds.

Studies regarding the effects of alkali-treated proteins:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=6388264&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=10563973&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

The product is then spray-dried into powders and sold in many nutritional supplements as calcium or sodium caseinate.

So, the supplement industry wants you to believe that casein and caseinates are the same thing, but after being washed, dryed, and treated with harsh chemicals, powdered caseinate supplements stand little chance of offering the same nutrition as the casein from milk, or cheese.

Caseinates and Free Glutamate

As an example of the effect of processing on casein, Dr. Russell Blaylock M.D., in his book Excitotoxins The Taste that Kills, lists calcium and sodium caseinates as food additives which ALWAYS contain free glutamate.

You’ll remember from our whey protein article that free glutamate (glutamate separated from protein) is a known excitotoxin, and can be toxic to the neurons of the brain, and the entire nervous system. It is free glutamate which makes the infamous food additive MSG (or monosodium glutamate) so dangerous.

Casein is one of nature’s richest sources of glutamate, but the relatively stable and slow digesting casein micelle (curd) probably protects us from glutamate-induced neuronal damage if we eat milk and cheese based FOODS.

On the other hand, harsh acid and alkali processing in the production of calcium and sodium caseinate powders likely denatures the casein, freeing up glutamate in the process, a phenomenon that would NOT take place in minimally processed milk or cheese.

As a side note, it is possible to produce a non-denatured casein powder, but very few supplement companies would use such an ingredient because of its high price.

I can’t stress enough: READ THE INGREDIENTS on your supplements. A product that is advertised as “Casein” will usually contain minimal amounts (if any) undenatured casein, and large amounts of the cheaper caseinates.

Where have we heard this story before? Why, with whey, of course. Companies often use high amounts of the cheaper whey protein concentrate, with absolutely miniscule amounts (if any) of quality whey protein isolate in their products.

Are you starting to see a trend here?

The bottom line is that most supplement companies pray that you don’t know what the heck you’re putting in your body. If you knew what they were trying to sell you, how it was made and what it really does, you’d have no part of it.

As it stands now, however, many supplement companies still rely on consumer ignorance to be able to sell the cheapest ingredients at inflated prices.

The Solution

The whole issue of fast versus slow proteins has been completely blown out of proportion by the supplement industry to sell you more processed powders. The fact is that any “real food” source of protein will digest slowly enough to supply a sustained release of amino acids into the body over a longer period of time. If a supplement company doesn’t tell you this, chances are they’re trying to sell you a cheap caseinate powder, which is a very poor replacement for real food.

Remember: Nothing beats real food.

Unlike other supplement companies, Integrated Supplements is dedicated to the concept of integrating supplements with real, minimally processed food.

Rather than sell you another powder to replace real food, our recommendation is this:

Not only should low quality caseinate powders be avoided, but casein and caseinates don’t need to be supplemented in the first place. If you want casein, there are too many other real foods that are much better sources of it.

Unlike quality whey proteins which are completely denatured in dairy processing, undenatured casein proteins are very common in the food supply. Milk, yogurt, cottage cheese, cheese, kefir, etc. all contain much better sources of casein than any powder, and are potentially loaded with other nutrients which aid in protein utilization. (Nature has a habit of supplying us with all of the nutrients we need through real food. It’s when we process the heck out of things that we get in trouble.)

Sometimes it seems as if it’s the job of the supplement industry to divert your attention away from real food, and toward their processed powders. If they had their way, you’d be eating protein shakes and bars morning noon and night. Don’t fall for it. Mother Nature still knows best. Your health and performance will suffer greatly if you believe that most of the junk food that passes as nutritional supplementation these days is as valuable as real food.

So, if you want to reap the benefits of “fast” and “slow” proteins, try this:

1 scoop of Integrated Supplements 100% Natural CFM® Whey Protein Isolate mixed with
8 oz of the highest quality real milk you can find

And if you’re on the go, mixing the Whey Isolate into one of those single-serving organic yogurts would be a good choice too.

With these simple and tasty concoctions you’ll get:

• A balanced ratio of protein, fat and carbs
• A sustained release of amino acids into the bloodstream
• None of the potentially harmful components of whey concentrates or caseinates
• The satisfaction of knowing you weren’t duped again by the supplement industry

Sometimes a little common sense goes a long way.

You can read more about the production of casein and caseinates here:

http://www.afns.ualberta.ca/Courses/Nufs403/PDFs/chapter20.pdf

And if you’re looking to track down some of the highest quality milk, check out these sites:

http://www.farmersallnaturalcreamery.com/

http://www.tpforganics.com/new/

Or ask your local store for organic, unhomogenized milk from your area. In homogenized milk, the milk fat is dispersed throughout the milk, potentially damaging delicate fats and fat soluble nutrients. Unhomogenized milk will have the cream at the top, just the way nature intended.

[bod1ggity]

Lastly, your body uses blood when it digest's. When you sleep your hate rate dramatically slows, digestion comes to almost a complete halt. By taking in a "slow digesting protein" or any food for that matter, you are going to either 1. Store it as fat because it was not properly digested or 2. Interfere with your proper sleep cycle (increasing heart rate to digest food and keeping you out of RIM sleep)

[blackson]

Well then, that's settled!

[peptidoglycan]

Lastly, your body uses blood when it digest's. When you sleep your hate rate dramatically slows, digestion comes to almost a complete halt. By taking in a "slow digesting protein" or any food for that matter, you are going to either 1. Store it as fat because it was not properly digested or 2. Interfere with your proper sleep cycle (increasing heart rate to digest food and keeping you out of RIM sleep)

WooooooooooooooooooooW...... Thanks so much that is a huge resource.. ill increase egg yolks and and kick the calcium caseinate!

[peptidoglycan]

FOURTH PIN Second week


Um Food is so hard to put down. shit.. hard as hell... take big bites just to get through it in a hurry.. i have chipmunk cheeks full of food im not hungry for. Slowly naughing away each big bite into little gulps. other then that instead of calcium casienate, ive been drinking mixing milk with protein before bed and when i wake up in the night around 5 or 6 in morning. No noticeable gains yet but i do see my strength and endurance up way up. i do appear like im losing body fat or maintaining. i did bloat last night so i assume i may be in for some bloatage.. sooooo i am taking arimidex EOD or EO3D only about .25 just to keep down bloat and prevent gyno.Other then that injection went good .. i am getting alot quicker at the whole thing and more comfortable. Im looking forward to the EQ to kick in so i can get this food down better. CHEERS!

[blackson]

FOURTH PIN Second week


Um Food is so hard to put down. shit.. hard as hell... take big bites just to get through it in a hurry.. i have chipmunk cheeks full of food im not hungry for. Slowly naughing away each big bite into little gulps. other then that instead of calcium casienate, ive been drinking mixing milk with protein before bed and when i wake up in the night around 5 or 6 in morning. No noticeable gains yet but i do see my strength and endurance up way up. i do appear like im losing body fat or maintaining. i did bloat last night so i assume i may be in for some bloatage.. sooooo i am taking arimidex EOD or EO3D only about .25 just to keep down bloat and prevent gyno.Other then that injection went good .. i am getting alot quicker at the whole thing and more comfortable. Im looking forward to the EQ to kick in so i can get this food down better. CHEERS!

Eating is the hardest part brother! 2 weeks in you won't be feeling much of anything and even 6 weeks in there really isn't some incredible hulk feeling. It's subtle, you aren't gonna rage, you're just gonna have wood every time a girl walks by and you're gonna be fuckin strong and jacked lol. Keep the updates coming! :D

[peptidoglycan]

Eating is the hardest part brother! 2 weeks in you won't be feeling much of anything and even 6 weeks in there really isn't some incredible hulk feeling. It's subtle, you aren't gonna rage, you're just gonna have wood every time a girl walks by and you're gonna be fuckin strong and jacked lol. Keep the updates coming! :D

haha ya wood.. yup.. pretty much sums up my life right now. Is that you in the picture?

[wolfeman28]

Have you thought of taking some B12? I thought it would be BS but it really does make eating easier...

[ronnie]

haha ya wood.. yup.. pretty much sums up my life right now. Is that you in the picture?

Yer thats him in the pic.:D

[peptidoglycan]

I GAINED A POUND! today i came in at 193.2lbs yay... lol....

[joe4fsu]

go to GNC and pick up a couple bottles of digestive enzyme's... its like $15 a bottle and with your new eating habits it will help with digesting and getting your body ready for the next meal,...

[peptidoglycan]

go to GNC and pick up a couple bottles of digestive enzyme's... its like $15 a bottle and with your new eating habits it will help with digesting and getting your body ready for the next meal,...

Done... thanks for the info i picked some up today

[Jello]

haha ya wood.. yup.. pretty much sums up my life right now. Is that you in the picture?

Yes it is, and here is another picture of him.

6323

You sound like other than the eating you are really starting to enjoy that cycle. Try the Synthelamin from Synthetek, I hear that will have you craving more food right after you get done eating. Keep us posted I'm looking forward to reading how this one goes for you.

[blackson]

Yes it is, and here is another picture of him.

6323

You sound like other than the eating you are really starting to enjoy that cycle. Try the Synthelamin from Synthetek, I hear that will have you craving more food right after you get done eating. Keep us posted I'm looking forward to reading how this one goes for you.

LMAO!! I almost cried when I saw that picture, I might have to steal it for a new avatar pic!

No of course that's not me! You should know that better than anyone, it's Big Ron Coleman strolling down the street with a fanny pack on. Every couple months somebody asks me the same question so don't feel stupid. ;)

[peptidoglycan]

lol...... i was wondering why jello had a picture of you lol.. seemed weird. hahaha... you should defiantly steal the pic and put it as your avatar!

[joe4fsu]

Have you started using the enzymes?

[peptidoglycan]

Have you started using the enzymes?

Hello chum why yes mate i have. lol.. . uhhhhhhhhhh ya today i started using the enzymes it says take one with a large glass of water at your largest meal .... but what if my largest meals are like 3 times a day. can i take em three times or is their a maximum.. what everr i say ill take em two times at two of the largest meals. i eat 7 meals but have like 3 that are huge. But thanks for the advice i know this stuff has to help at least in the absorption of protiens, carbos and fat. Has lactase as well so i don't get GI distress cuse of all the milk.:D

[joe4fsu]

I take two at every large meal... one with every meal... not a snack.. usually its my post workout meal and dinner... if I am going to eat something that I know will stick with me (fast food, etc.) I take it... it will help tremendously...

[peptidoglycan]

PIN # 5

Got cought up at this girls house did get home to pin till 430 am. This time it felt like th pin was not to sharp. i replaced it and everything after drawing. kinda left it pretty sore afterwords. i rubbed it and did some squats to just work it in. I sleept a full 7 hours though. wish i could do 8 but it was already 12 o clock and i got up on my own so. body feels replenished. Ready to hit the gym hard today. back.. getting pretty angry at gym. not at anyone but just about 8 rep of heavy i get this huge kill or be killed attitude with the weights lol. weights lose :)

[peptidoglycan]

I take two at every large meal... one with every meal... not a snack.. usually its my post workout meal and dinner... if I am going to eat something that I know will stick with me (fast food, etc.) I take it... it will help tremendously...

thanks joe. ive noticed that i poop turds now. either my body is getting used to eating so much or the enzymes are helping to digest and assimilate properly food i ingest.:cool:

[peptidoglycan]

how do you post pictures?

[blackson]

how do you post pictures?

It's a pain in the ass! I think you gotta upload them to another site and then link them.

[Jello]

how do you post pictures?

Save it to a file on your desktop (easiest to get to and find for me) then click the attachment button on the reply page and browse to find them. Find your picture and hit save, then click on upload. Exit the upload page back to the reply page and click on the attachment button and select the pictures you want in your quote.

[peptidoglycan]

Beginning of Third Week! Back progress pic. Will post more along the way.



6356

[peptidoglycan]

Front shot same day as last picture 195lbs

6357

[joe4fsu]

so random Q.. what the heck does your screen name mean?

[peptidoglycan]

PEPTIDOGLYCAN also known as murein, is a polymer consisting of sugars and amino acids that forms a mesh-like layer outside the plasma membrane of bacteria, forming the cell wall. The sugar component consists of alternating residues of β-(1,4) linked N-acetylglucosamine and N-acetylmuramic acid residues. Attached to the N-acetylmuramic acid is a peptide chain of three to five amino acids. The peptide chain can be cross-linked to the peptide chain of another strand forming the 3D mesh-like layer. Some Archaea have a similar layer of pseudopeptidoglycan. Peptidoglycan serves a structural role in the bacterial cell wall, giving structural strength, as well as counteracting the osmotic pressure of the cytoplasm. A common misconception is that peptidoglycan gives the cell its shape; however, whereas peptidoglycan helps maintain the structure of the cell, it is actually the MreB protein that facilitates cell shape. Peptidoglycan is also involved in binary fission during bacterial cell reproduction.
-WIKI

Our Biology teacher said that it would be on the exam so i figured the best way to memorize it is to have it as my handle name :) so everytime i log on i see it. Im a bio minor psych major looking to go neuro. lol

[Jello]

Our Biology teacher said that it would be on the exam so i figured the best way to memorize it is to have it as my handle name :) so everytime i log on i see it. Im a bio minor psych major looking to go neuro. lol

Alright, so what the hell is it?


Were you shaking or something when you took that back shot. From what I can see it looks good though.

[Go.It.Alone.]

Hey man, love the thread. Im starting my first cycle of test C in a couple of weeks and going to have to push my food intake WAY up. I like the whole vs egg whites talk and the casine; good stuff. Good luck with the cycle and keep makin' those gains.

Yea, im a biology major and ive done some neuro. Shits for real and out of control complicated but pretty interesting stuff. More power to ya if thats your thing.

[peptidoglycan]

Alright, so what the hell is it?


Were you shaking or something when you took that back shot. From what I can see it looks good though.

Its just the cell wall of certain bacteria that creates a barrier between the cytoplasm and whatever environment it may be in.

Oh ya well if you look at the picture the camera is on the top of my head. also the camera without flash takes like 2 seconds to take the picture so any movement causes a shitty photo.

[peptidoglycan]

Hey man, love the thread. Im starting my first cycle of test C in a couple of weeks and going to have to push my food intake WAY up. I like the whole vs egg whites talk and the casine; good stuff. Good luck with the cycle and keep makin' those gains.

Yea, im a biology major and ive done some neuro. Shits for real and out of control complicated but pretty interesting stuff. More power to ya if thats your thing.

Thanks man... im glad you enjoyed reading it... ya i read it over everyonce and a while and i laugh at some of the things i said lol... other then that ya lots of good information on here. always skeptical but i do believe that calcium casinate is junk now lol. rather get 100% casein real deal stuff. YA neuro is my favorite thing in the world. Very very very interesting. What do you want to go into as far as biology? And good luck with your cycle did you get all your stuff figured out on how your going to take it?

[Jello]

Its just the cell wall of certain bacteria that creates a barrier between the cytoplasm and whatever environment it may be in.

Oh, yeah I knew that;)

Oh ya well if you look at the picture the camera is on the top of my head. also the camera without flash takes like 2 seconds to take the picture so any movement causes a shitty photo.

That's what I figured. Looking good though, I can't wait to see those after pics:cool:

[peptidoglycan]

PIN # 6 End of third week

Everything was smooth. i could almost feel the needle hit the muscle layer. Getting real good at it. Been alternating cheeks and feelin pretty good. ive been pinning monday night and Thursday night. does this sound good?. just need some reassurance. Been taking digestive enzymes. today was the first day i put all my food down pretty good. i actually had an appetite.. well except for lunch that shit was hard.. never mind i forgot about lunch. that sucked. Still horny as shit. no ass though.. damn now i wish i didn't get rid of my ex girl so quickly:( oh god there is no way people are not going to notice that i just blow up lol... ive already started blowing up. last i weighed 199 geez. my shoulders are like --------------------------------------------------------------------this big. ive always had the genes for big shoulders but damn they are huge. i have to compensate with chest and back now.
Crap i already had a guy ask me were he could get roids. dammit. damn them. their to smart these days. Oh and guess what!!!! my luck a guy i used to work with was getting rid of his ex roomates stuff since he went to the military and he stumbled upon some iranian test in ampules.. I was like oh really... hmmm might i have a look? he said sure...later i went to his house and he went on and on about how he didnt want to get in trouble for having it and his ex roomate just told him to sell it but he didnt want any part of that so i said that i would take them.. never implied to do em but just said i could get rid of it for him... so i get home and did some research finds out that all looks good from the description as it is legit. back story from the guy was that his ex roomate was in the military and when he was in iran they brought back a bunch of test e. When i got home i also counted how many ampules...... 89! holy shit. f and a .... f and a. talk about luck right... Im still waiting on the lab to send me a email verifying batch number. peace.. ill post an update soon to where im at growth wise. i have all the measurements somehwere laying around here of where i was at at the beginning.

Training Change

MON: Morning and night splits CHEST AND TRI'S
Tue: Morning and night splits Back and Bi's
WED: ABS 30 min cardio (low intensity)
THUR: HAMS AND QUADS
Fri: SHOULDERS and TRAPS
SAT: CALVES and FORARMS
Sun: Cardio 30 min (low intensity)

[blackson]

PIN # 6 End of third week

Everything was smooth. i could almost feel the needle hit the muscle layer. Getting real good at it. Been alternating cheeks and feelin pretty good. ive been pinning monday night and Thursday night. does this sound good?. just need some reassurance. Been taking digestive enzymes. today was the first day i put all my food down pretty good. i actually had an appetite.. well except for lunch that shit was hard.. never mind i forgot about lunch. that sucked. Still horny as shit. no ass though.. damn now i wish i didn't get rid of my ex girl so quickly:( oh god there is no way people are not going to notice that i just blow up lol... ive already started blowing up. last i weighed 199 geez. my shoulders are like --------------------------------------------------------------------this big. ive always had the genes for big shoulders but damn they are huge. i have to compensate with chest and back now.
Crap i already had a guy ask me were he could get roids. dammit. damn them. their to smart these days. Oh and guess what!!!! my luck a guy i used to work with was getting rid of his ex roomates stuff since he went to the military and he stumbled upon some iranian test in ampules.. I was like oh really... hmmm might i have a look? he said sure...later i went to his house and he went on and on about how he didnt want to get in trouble for having it and his ex roomate just told him to sell it but he didnt want any part of that so i said that i would take them.. never implied to do em but just said i could get rid of it for him... so i get home and did some research finds out that all looks good from the description as it is legit. back story from the guy was that his ex roomate was in the military and when he was in iran they brought back a bunch of test e. When i got home i also counted how many ampules...... 89! holy shit. f and a .... f and a. talk about luck right... Im still waiting on the lab to send me a email verifying batch number. peace.. ill post an update soon to where im at growth wise. i have all the measurements somehwere laying around here of where i was at at the beginning.

Training Change

MON: Morning and night splits CHEST AND TRI'S
Tue: Morning and night splits Back and Bi's
WED: ABS 30 min cardio (low intensity)
THUR: HAMS AND QUADS
Fri: SHOULDERS and TRAPS
SAT: CALVES and FORARMS
Sun: Cardio 30 min (low intensity)

FUCK YA buddy that is awesome! Those Iranians are the shit.

[peptidoglycan]

I know right :D

[Go.It.Alone.]

Thanks man... im glad you enjoyed reading it... ya i read it over everyonce and a while and i laugh at some of the things i said lol... other then that ya lots of good information on here. always skeptical but i do believe that calcium casinate is junk now lol. rather get 100% casein real deal stuff. YA neuro is my favorite thing in the world. Very very very interesting. What do you want to go into as far as biology? And good luck with your cycle did you get all your stuff figured out on how your going to take it?

yea bud, i usually get most of my casine from cottage cheese so i know its the real stuff. I think one of the hardest things about neuro is trying to grasp the 3D structure of everything. Something may look one way on a coronal section and completely diff transverse. Move a quarter inch up/down/left/right/medial/lateral whatever and everything can change. I graduate in may and im looking to take a year off to travel before heading off to med school (10 year commitment. kinda need some freedom before that shit)

as far as my cycle goes ive been getting people's opinions and tweaking it for a few weeks and it looks like i've settled on:

Test C for 8 or 10 weeks (depends on how i do at 500mg/wk. if sides start getting me ill back down to 375mg/wk which would give me extra to run just a little longer).

Test P for 6 weeks after the cyp at 100mg EOD to keep gaining but start pulling the water weight off and leaning down. Ill also be running winny for 6 weeks along side the prop to help pull off water.

PCT clomid for 4 weeks with Nolvadex on hand if needed.

Its a little long, 14-16 weeks, but it gives me room to adjust as the cycle progresses and i see how im reacting. Hopefully i'll end up at 14 wks.

Whatcha think? our research matching up bud haha

[Go.It.Alone.]

Oh, and that shit with the iranian test is crazy haha. 89 ampules...damn!

Keep working, keep growing.

[peptidoglycan]

yea bud, i usually get most of my casine from cottage cheese so i know its the real stuff. I think one of the hardest things about neuro is trying to grasp the 3D structure of everything. Something may look one way on a coronal section and completely diff transverse. Move a quarter inch up/down/left/right/medial/lateral whatever and everything can change. I graduate in may and im looking to take a year off to travel before heading off to med school (10 year commitment. kinda need some freedom before that shit)

as far as my cycle goes ive been getting people's opinions and tweaking it for a few weeks and it looks like i've settled on:

Test C for 8 or 10 weeks (depends on how i do at 500mg/wk. if sides start getting me ill back down to 375mg/wk which would give me extra to run just a little longer).

Test P for 6 weeks after the cyp at 100mg EOD to keep gaining but start pulling the water weight off and leaning down. Ill also be running winny for 6 weeks along side the prop to help pull off water.

PCT clomid for 4 weeks with Nolvadex on hand if needed.

Its a little long, 14-16 weeks, but it gives me room to adjust as the cycle progresses and i see how im reacting. Hopefully i'll end up at 14 wks.

Whatcha think? our research matching up bud haha

ya i switched over to cottage cheese for sure. As for sides ive been fine. everyone is diff but a way that i have heard that you can reduce your sides is by pinning twice a week (mon and thurs split.) 1cc mon and then 1cc on thurs. this will reduce sides and pain in the butt. Its what i do and i haven't had any sides show other then normal bloating. Other than that most would suggest HCG with such a long cycle.. if you do end at 14 weeks you should be fine with nolva and clo. I wish i had some prop to clean up but im just gunna use clen and psych myself to get in the gym and push hard. Good luck you should start a log when you do i would like to read how it works out for you.

[Go.It.Alone.]

Ive been controling my diet for a while now and can pretty much eat any shit reguardless of taste but a buddy of mine turned me on to fat free cottage cheese and fat free yogurt. 1 cup cheese and one container yogurt, maybe add in a few blueberries...good shit. Also cottage cheese and salsa heated up in the microwave. not as good but turns into like a veggie soup. not bad.

Yea, i was planning on pinning every 4th day like you said. I dont have any HCG on hand but ill def get some for my next cycle. I plan on starting right when i get back from spring break around april 13th (i know, my school has high school spring break which is pretty shitty haha) so ill start a log then. Ive spent so much time planning and researching im just ready to damn start already!!

[Jello]

ya i switched over to cottage cheese for sure. As for sides ive been fine. everyone is diff but a way that i have heard that you can reduce your sides is by pinning twice a week (mon and thurs split.) 1cc mon and then 1cc on thurs. this will reduce sides and pain in the butt. Its what i do and i haven't had any sides show other then normal bloating. Other than that most would suggest HCG with such a long cycle.. if you do end at 14 weeks you should be fine with nolva and clo. I wish i had some prop to clean up but im just gunna use clen and psych myself to get in the gym and push hard. Good luck you should start a log when you do i would like to read how it works out for you.

Bump, good advice here.

[peptidoglycan]

Bump, good advice here.

Ya i learned that one from some guy named jello haha.:p

[countryboyWVU]

nice gain im happy for you!

[peptidoglycan]

nice gain im happy for you!

almost there 200 here i come. Im holding water im sure... o well i have 11 more weeks or so. how you coming?

[peptidoglycan]

Pin # 7

Oh crap... what the F#$@! Well here goes.. I was getting ready for another pin.. got everything set no no problems yet... then i lay down and stab it right in my right glute. All the way down pulled the plunger and bam off the bat BLOOD! so i took it out removed the blood put another pin and then pinned half an inch to the left of original site.. asperated all was good for now.. i decided to aspirate again half way into it. BLOOD AGAIN! damn so i got another pin and removed the blood... ok so now im contemplating how many times i can pin my ass around the same spot and not worry. Aslo im worrieing if i may have got some in a vein and soon will be facing pulmonary embolism. right this may happen or why dont i want the oil in a vein.. well veins go to right pump then pumped to lungs then back to left pump than to body... hmmm i wonder. Anyways so when can i expect feeling the effects if i did hit a vein with some oil..? anyways so then again i pinned about a quarter inch higher and in the middle of the two pins... All way good no blood so i let her have it. Fuck 3 pins three holes and some worry to boot. Please anybody tell me im ok.

Also i started at 192 (morning weight) i am now at 197. Although i cannot pin point it. some say im wider i think alittle on legs and back and chest. my strengths is way up exept for this morning i was pretty weak in the gym on chest but i burned it out intense. tonight tri's were amazinng though. When can i expect to blow up as they say? i havent yet.. and i pinched at 12.5% body fat which sucks. that means i have 23 pounds of fat and 173 pounds lean mass. shit i say... ok then ill get to bed so i can put these worries to rest. hmmm i am hungry

[PTE23]

Ha ha, youll be fine bro, just sounds like a pain in the ass. I hate it when I get blood but my left ass cheek seems to be veiny cause it happens all the time and never with the right one. Shit I shot some tren into a vessel not too long ago and about died of tren cough lol but I wouldnt worry. Ive had to stick myself numerous times, I usually dont even bothre to change the needle

[PTE23]

Also unless you are planning to compete soon I recommend you increase calories and not worry too my about putting on a bit of fat. Dont let not eating be the limiting factor in your gains. Test you should "blow up" anywhere b/w 3-5 weeks in, eq may take a bit longer. Next time you could jumpstart with some prop or use sust and pin EOD and you might get faster gains

[peptidoglycan]

haha thanks PTE23 thats all i PM u about. just checkin out my log and telling me what you thought about last nights pin.. haha well i woke up alive so great! right. ok i think im going to just go nuts on food and not worry. cuse i want to get the most gains.

[blackson]

Bump PTE23, I wouldn't stress out too much about that blood or that you injected a bit into a vein, but next time make sure you aspirate every injection spot! I know I don't have to tell you that now that you've learned your lesson though. :D

[peptidoglycan]

Bump PTE23, I wouldn't stress out too much about that blood or that you injected a bit into a vein, but next time make sure you aspirate every injection spot! I know I don't have to tell you that now that you've learned your lesson though. :D

no haha i did aspirate. i may have told the story alittle on the edge so i skipped some words.. i aspirated everytime. Here is the story again. First i stabbed it in my glute then apritated.. result Blood.. so i picked another site. (mind you im injecting about 2cc's) ... Second spot i stabbed slightly to the left of original. Aspirated and all air bubbles. so i injected 1cc then decided to aspirate again just to check and sucked up Blood. so my worry was did i just inject part of the 1cc that i just injected in my once thought safe spot... see? then i pulled out and pinned again alittle above both originals pins. got air and injected the rest of the 1cc. phew... haha. maybe thats a tad clearer.. pretty hard to explain lol.. the first one was a gusher though.. wow... Im not sore in the muscle just at the surface cuse i had to pin so many times around the same spot. Is this normal the injection soreness goes away?. (mind you im mixing EQ with Test E).

[countryboyWVU]

almost there 200 here i come. Im holding water im sure... o well i have 11 more weeks or so. how you coming?

i up to 185 3 weeks in. Im not impressed with the abombs i got, i think they are bunk.. im climbin the scale though and i have amazing energy.

[peptidoglycan]

i up to 185 3 weeks in. Im not impressed with the abombs i got, i think they are bunk.. im climbin the scale though and i have amazing energy.

what was your starting weight?

[countryboyWVU]

180 lbs

[peptidoglycan]

180 lbs

Nice man 5 lbs of meat is alot.

[peptidoglycan]

Pin 8 Completed week 4

. Arimidex has still been E3D. no signs of gyno some itchy nip but nothing consistant since im taking arimidex.. i might switch to nolva at 10mg per day and keep the arimi just in case. this wont be till 37 days out cuse i only have 37 nolva's extra. The Pin went way smooth the best pin so far. Aspirated twice one at start and one half way down hit muscle no nerves no pain nothing. went in real nice.. i liked the switch up from last mondays dreaded pain in the ass.. literally. i have 2 bruises at pin sites on my right cheek. suck balls. I have gone softer on my diet eating way more food. also i have had an increase of appetite.. ive been eating like 3 to 4 dinners a day. Last tuesday i had chicken enchiladas and then went home and had salmon dinner. been super hungry latley. I am getting less lean... its ok.. im fine with it. alittle bloat ive noticed nothing super crazy. i do drink like a gallon of water minimum and am intaking alot of salt with foods. no added salt though. I HIT 199lbs today.. even got a 200lbs reading in the morning which was exciting. End of fourth week and im hitting 200.. good. if i do this every 4 weeks i should gain at least 25 pounds out of this cycle. tomorrows weigh in should be good. im excited. Thanks everyone for stickin around and helpin me out..i really enjoy this forum because of you guys. Ive been to some forums and this by far has amongst the most intelligent friendly real people on it. And i love how the idiots dont last long here. haha.

[giff]

Any pics P?

[Jello]

Hello EQ!!!!!!!!!!!

I could not believe how hungry I was even after I would eat when that shit kicked in. By my 5th week my wife started to ask WTF was going on, I was eating constantly. She told me that if "That Stuff" was going to make me eat like that I needed to find something else to take. I think I'm going to run it my next cycle too:D

[peptidoglycan]

Any pics P?

I have some pictures of the third week on page 7. i will have more pictures next friday.:)

[peptidoglycan]

Hello EQ!!!!!!!!!!!

I could not believe how hungry I was even after I would eat when that shit kicked in. By my 5th week my wife started to ask WTF was going on, I was eating constantly. She told me that if "That Stuff" was going to make me eat like that I needed to find something else to take. I think I'm going to run it my next cycle too:D

lol:D

[peptidoglycan]

almost 200lbs and almost 200 posts!

[PTE23]

I would stick to adex on cycle and use nolva PCT. Just my opinion though, glad your doing so well bro, keep on bulking, I really like to bulk with family size packets of spaghetti and tons of lean ground beef in there. Wish I was on cycle :(

[peptidoglycan]

I would stick to adex on cycle and use nolva PCT. Just my opinion though, glad your doing so well bro, keep on bulking, I really like to bulk with family size packets of spaghetti and tons of lean ground beef in there. Wish I was on cycle :(

LOL you crack me up man. didnt you just get off cycle like 2 weeks ago? And to boot you been on it a year. Hows PCT going by the way... are you having a hard time? ok cool ill jus stick to ADEx... Well i am adding fat cuse my 4 abs went away lol. but what the hell its bulking time. I felt so good today i skipped shoulders (my shoulders are huge i dont need more) and did chest again this week. chest was not sore anymore so i decided to hit it again. also did some calves. which felt good. i think im going to move chest days to fridays because one its right after my thursnight pin and i feel like i grow on the weekends so i want my chest to get the benifiet of just growing without going through a whole week of other exercises.

[PTE23]

Yea i did, and it honestly doesnt suck too bad yet. Went from 199 lbs to 195 so far but I havent lost any strength but I am getting fatter lol. Dont feel recovered by any means but I doubt it will take too much longer. Going to get one of those testosterone tester kits in about a month and see whats up. On clomid, nolva, and tribulus, shitloads of creatine and carbs

[peptidoglycan]

End of 5th week (pin 9 and 10)

Arrrrgg my diet went to shit.. just got bizzy.. Still drank protien shakes but didnt get my full meals in sometimes and i was inbetween running everywhere and i figured any food is better than no food so i got suckered into the 2 bigmacs for 3 dollars deal.. lol so i took the bread out the middle (my way of making it better lol) and ingulfed it.. i also bought two dbl cheeseburgers and ate them soon after.. lol.. wow yes this was one day. bad bad... oh well. ive been off diet.. like i ate bunch of spegetti this week along with sauce and half lb of meat... yumm... I have been super hungry and its hard for me to be somewhere to get decent food all the time. but the majority of food that im ingesting is sound. breakfast is always by the diet and dinners.. im at least having a half lb of meat on three meals a day. the other is a shake and the last meal which is a cottage cheese or a shake. I will be gettin gback on track this next week as i am seeing alittle fat gain. pinning is going smooth. im just starting to grow it feels..I was waiting five weeks thinking shit im strong as hell but where the hell is the mass... my strength has been through the roof and endurance is incredible in the gym. Best feeling in the world. im starting to get some people saying that i was made in a lab... partially true i guess. my shoulders although i took them out of my workout regimen have gotten bigger. i need more chest. my shoulders take away from my chest.. so ive been hitting chest twice a week. inners and uppers Monday and outer lower Friday. Both days, i super heavy mid chest 5 rep program that i have to pre fatigue the muscle prior to chest workout.. ok well i haven't checked my weight but ive been fluxing in between 200 and 205 now.. These next weeks ill be focusing outer quads outer chest.

[Jello]

Hey keep up the good work Bro, and don't sweat the food. When you are bulking there is nothing wrong with throwing in a shit meal every now and then, just don't make a habit of it. Nothing like getting 3,000 calories in one sitting:eek: If they could just figure out a way to not make your stomach feel so shitty after wards, but I guess if they did we might eat it more often:o

[countryboyWVU]

Im startin my 5th week on monday, really felt it last week, cant wait to hit the gym

[CollinDC]

ironic .. tomorrow is my 5th week on too! :D last week i def. felt alot stronger then my 3rd week. cant wait to see what this week has in store

[peptidoglycan]

Hey keep up the good work Bro, and don't sweat the food. When you are bulking there is nothing wrong with throwing in a shit meal every now and then, just don't make a habit of it. Nothing like getting 3,000 calories in one sitting:eek: If they could just figure out a way to not make your stomach feel so shitty after wards, but I guess if they did we might eat it more often:o

thanks major jello for the peace of mind ;). The costco register lady said she wanted to eat my arms...? i was slightly confused but decided to take it as a compliment... she kinda looked hungry though if ya ask me... i thanked her and quickly exited the building.

[peptidoglycan]

Im startin my 5th week on monday, really felt it last week, cant wait to hit the gym

Nice whats your BF right now? I think i may have to much bf to see my gains stand out. (13%) I am starting to notice them more now.. took a while they weren't kidding when they said it would take 4-6 weeks. My strength is unreal though.. are you seeing much growth yet ?

[peptidoglycan]

ironic .. tomorrow is my 5th week on too! :D last week i def. felt alot stronger then my 3rd week. cant wait to see what this week has in store

True each week has its own special feeling. :D

[countryboyWVU]

yes im feeling diesel! im gonna run dbol the last few weeks of my cycle maybe like 10-14 or somthing of that sort. Im 190lbs today thats 10lbs in 4 weeks, I am very excited and my bf is between 8-10%

[countryboyWVU]

my arms are getting huge and swole

Im starting to fall in love with supertest and eq! this might be my best cycle ever. it certainly has potential, im gonan post up a pic tommorrow maybe.

[blackson]

thanks major jello for the peace of mind ;). The costco register lady said she wanted to eat my arms...? i was slightly confused but decided to take it as a compliment... she kinda looked hungry though if ya ask me... i thanked her and quickly exited the building.

LOL that's random.

[peptidoglycan]

End of Week 6 (pin 11 and 12)

Now i am a solid 205. thats 13lbs increase end of 6th week. The side effects that i am experiencing are red skin.. my skintone is redder.. why? BP? some one asked if i burnt last time i went into the tanning bed. i have not tanned in a while.. im part mexi so i just dont need too...I am bloating quite a bit. I am starting to see growth at an increadable rate and my workouts have been past insane. Everyone is starting to ask questions lol.. My sex drive comes and goes now.. sometimes im super aggressive to bone and other times the thought is there but mr peeps aint buyin it. pisses me off lol. Im trying to wane off AI and just take 10mg of nolva daily. Keep the rest of AI just in case. i think i got some scar tissue in my left cheek building cuse it hurt to pin it last night... ouch.. thahts about it for now. if anyone can give me feed back of whats going on that would be great! ok guys peace!

[PTE23]

Not sure about the sex drive, usually mine is pretty consistent when on test. I have read that too much conversion to estrogen on high doses of test is what causes the decrease in drive. That is why 250 mg/wk tends to be better for sex drive than 500+ mg/wk. You probably have high BP from the water retention though, I think an AI will help with both of your concerns. Good gains though bro, keep it up, hopefully you can pull 20 lbs out of this cycle and keep 15 or so

[wafinale]

13lbs in 6 weeks is fucking awesome man! I remember reading that skin getting more red on a cycle is common, but im not sure why...I just know its common. as far as your scar tissue goes on ur glute...Why dont you just inject every where else?? Traps,Lats, etc...

SpotInjections.com has some pretty good pics of every muscle you can pin.

Keep liftin like a beast... Stay motivated and eat like a fuckin horse!!

[peptidoglycan]

thanks guys!

[panther#1]

Hey there, just checked your thread for first time. Sounds good so far. Agree that you should stick to adex on cycle and nolva post. Are you pinning any other area besides glutes? Also don't beat yourself up too much for having a few crappy meals. Better to have a few extra calories in then to miss them all together. For me getting lean is a hell of a lot easier then adding the weight.

panther

[peptidoglycan]

Man i got some weird shit happening right now. latley at times ive been feeling short of breath (like there is weight on my chest). usually at night or laying on the couch in the evenings. but most of all ive been dealing with an elivated heart rate... it feels like my heart is working hard for somereason when all im trying to do is sleep. Im gunna get my BP checked but has that anything to do with BPM? hmm ... i feel alright so .

[blackson]

Man i got some weird shit happening right now. latley at times ive been feeling short of breath (like there is weight on my chest). usually at night or laying on the couch in the evenings. but most of all ive been dealing with an elivated heart rate... it feels like my heart is working hard for somereason when all im trying to do is sleep. Im gunna get my BP checked but has that anything to do with BPM? hmm ... i feel alright so .

I had the same short of breath problem and I ended up going to doctor and getting a chest x-ray. Doctor said I was fine and sent me home, the next day I started to feel better, I don't know if it was mental or what. Before going to the doctor I was pretty worried about it. It felt like I couldn't get a full breath of air in.

[peptidoglycan]

I had the same short of breath problem and I ended up going to doctor and getting a chest x-ray. Doctor said I was fine and sent me home, the next day I started to feel better, I don't know if it was mental or what. Before going to the doctor I was pretty worried about it. It felt like I couldn't get a full breath of air in.

Bingo bro same deal! what where you on at the time? Thank you... makes me feel a whole lot better.. ive been gettin red as shit though and sweating in my workouts like crazy. though my intensity is off the charts.. i am officially 208.5lbs today... Growing like crazy.:cool::eek:

[peptidoglycan]

BING! 210 pounds today lol... holy shit what the hell is going on. Although my strength in my workouts was weak this week... damn.. i dunno what it is but i hope it goes away... i had to move down a rack. serious... and back day was weak to but i killed it with all my might. so still got sore still ate tons. Also does test make you better at trigonometry cuse i think it does... ive been more aggressive to get my homework done lol.

[CollinDC]

keep it up bro,nice progress so far! We all have our off days at the gym,even enhanced on aas:cool:

[Go.It.Alone.]

hey bud, it looks like your cycle is moving along pretty smoothly. Great gains. Let me ask you something. When did you start noticing some bloat from the water retention?

[blackson]

Bingo bro same deal! what where you on at the time? Thank you... makes me feel a whole lot better.. ive been gettin red as shit though and sweating in my workouts like crazy. though my intensity is off the charts.. i am officially 208.5lbs today... Growing like crazy.:cool::eek:

I honestly can't remember how far along I was bro, maybe 6 or 7 weeks, if you're worried about it go get checked out but I'm sure it's something to do with growing so fast and it's turned into a habit, that's how I felt about it anyways after it stopped. After the xray and doc saying I was fine it just went away, like it was all in my head.

[blackson]

BING! 210 pounds today lol... holy shit what the hell is going on. Although my strength in my workouts was weak this week... damn.. i dunno what it is but i hope it goes away... i had to move down a rack. serious... and back day was weak to but i killed it with all my might. so still got sore still ate tons. Also does test make you better at trigonometry cuse i think it does... ive been more aggressive to get my homework done lol.

I've got to say I'm impressed with your dedication and progress, congratulations, you've earned it. About losing some strength this week, that always happens to everyone, I don't know why, maybe it's your body fighting back, screaming "I can't be this strong!!" but don't even worry about it.

[superbeast22]

i always get ups and downs in stregnth... i am glad the cycle is going well for you man!!!!

[PTE23]

Awesome!

[peptidoglycan]

hey bud, it looks like your cycle is moving along pretty smoothly. Great gains. Let me ask you something. When did you start noticing some bloat from the water retention?

About week 5 ive noticed bloat but its not too bad since im controlling it with arimidex

[peptidoglycan]

End of Week 7

GO.IT.ALONE never mind man i didnt know bloat until now... 7th week man im a freaking swole like a fish puffy as shit in other words... even have a double chine starting to poke out.

Damn i am bloating like crazy.. even with arimi i still notice bloat. libido feels better now but still pretty weak compared to the first 4 weeks i was on. not getting any hard on's at night just bloat ;(.. oh well. growing like crazy so i guess thats what it takes... im taking .25 arimi EOD now... i am coming in today at 209.5lbs in morning and 212lbs at night. cant wait to take my winstrol to dry out a bit... damn so far away. Acne started in on the chest and tiny bit on shoulders and traps. Im kinda getting sick of being so damn fatty and bloated.. ya think maybe on the 12th week i can start a cutting diet... ratios would be 350g pro 200g carb 80g fat. Just want to at least see my new muscle more defined and since summer is coming up. Dont let me off easy guys if you think i should ride this out and sqeeze out every inch of muscle growth feel free to say no... after eating this much and spending all this time cooking or eating out i would love to go on a 2500 cal diet again.. lol.. shit
Thats about it guys just been lazy and eating and growing. people are commenting all over the place and im getting alot of questions i just tell them superdrol tren stack.. pshhhh fuck it. hate it.. but i love the size now.. i will have pics next friday how bout that... peace for now.

[Jello]

Don't worry about the bloat, it's part of the joy of cycling. Keep eating and growing. Get every bit of muscle you can out of this cycle, then you can worry about dropping weight when you come off. Good work, keep it up.

[peptidoglycan]

i forgot how to post them on here. damn anyways some updates END OF WEEK 7 Photos Currently 210 from 192 and growing.

[peptidoglycan]

ive been having EQ dick i think.. can i bump up test to see if it helps? or how the hell do i cure this damn problem..

[PTE23]

I like that last shot, back, rear delts and tris are looking great. If it were me Id keep bulking, just bulk clean, dont sweat the bloat, itll give you something to look forward to PCT

[PTE23]

As far as the dick problem (lol) my guess is it is related to high estrogen levels. Upping the test will only make it worse. 250 mg test/wk is best for sex drive purposes because you wont get the high estrogen conversion. Bump the adex dose to .25 ED and kill that enzyme bro. Arimidex is not as strong as letro, when I take it I take .5 mg/day.

[peptidoglycan]

sweet right on time man thanks PTE23. i had a lady friend over the weekend and upping the arimi did the trick..! i would give you more rep points but it cut me off from givin them to you lol

[Go.It.Alone.]

Hey bud, i have a Q. When you pin 2x weekly, like monday/thursday, are you only pinning on mondays and thursdays or are you pinning every fourth day like mon/thur, sun/wed, sat/tue, fri/mon, ect...you see what im saying? Every fourth day would keep you with 500mg every 8 days and pinning on ONLY mondays and thursdays would have a 2 day gap followed by a 3 day gap b/w thur and mon which i would think would cause more fluctuation in your test levels, although it would probably be pretty minor. What are your thoughts?

[Go.It.Alone.]

Nevermind man, ive decided to pin monday mornings and thursday nights which works out perfectly to give me 3.5 days between each pin. Just wish i'd have thought of this sooner before i asked a dumb question haha

[peptidoglycan]

no bro thats a perfectly great question.. one that i had as well. although i have been pinning nights and i have seen a low rate of side effects other than the side effect of getting huge. :) maybe i should start pinning in the morning but if you see me in a morning there is no way i can do anything.. i just cook sit and eat and lay for another hour. Great question ill have to ask jello or pte that same one sometime. although through experience i have seen huge results without many sides.. just the occasional pimple here and there and bloat... how is your cycle going? or have you started?

[peptidoglycan]

End of week 9

Oops skipped a week update... whatever. I hit a plateu at the 7th week till a couple days agoo.. i was stuck at 210.. but now ive increased to 213. i went to watch a bodybuilding comp and im even more motivated now. im going to take one week 10th week. and instead of my normal 2 heavy exercises and 2 exercises with supersets, i am going to change it up this week to volume training moderate heavy and really focus on each contraction to complete failure. i will do heavy like one day a week on one compound muscle.. and run this till the end of cycle to see how much mucsle i can put on at the last bit. ALSO going to see jay cutler on the 22nd of this month and phil heath on june 6th pretty excited.

[Go.It.Alone.]

Tomorrow's the big day my man. Ive already started my log and ill be updating that as i go along. I had some last minute thoughts about doing the test cyp 375/wk instead of 500 and run it for 10 weeks but i think im just going to stick with 500 for 8. Alot of folks have said that thats alittle short of a long ester but i start prop at week 9 and from everything ive learned it all boils down to test is test so its still a 14wk test cycle in the end. plus doing cyp and prop through out the cycle ill be able to see how i react to both.

[peptidoglycan]

Good luck bro! If you have anymore question that come up just pm me.

[Go.It.Alone.]

10-4 good buddy haha will do.

[peptidoglycan]

UPDATE

Fuck an A.. I just started cardio today.. man am i sweating like crazy.. keeping my protien up and carb but cutting on fats a bit. im Competing now in a series this coming oct. my strength have gone way up.. im pushing 100 dumbell inclines with ease. Deadlifts are up. just been killing it. cant wait to get final pictures up. any precontest experiences anyone would like to share? anyways heart rate has been elevated.. dont really know why heart seems to be working hard. maybe ill take some asprin. i think its due to the high blood pressure. I absolutely love the gym and the dedication it takes to get results.. im ready to compete not physically but mentally. :)

[Go.It.Alone.]

How are your gains comin brother? whats your total weight gain been so far?

[peptidoglycan]

total weight gain is 21 pounds. It is starting to taper off now and im gaining slow.. but now that i have upped cardio i should see it slowing anyways since im losing fat weight and increase lean mass.

[Go.It.Alone.]

Yea, i figure you'll probably still keep gaining slowly while leaning down but at least you'll know its all muscle, right? and by the end of your cycle you'll be sitting in a great position ready to maintain for the summer instead of losing a little bulked up fat.

[peptidoglycan]

Update week 11

Half way through week 11. started winny this week. Things are pretty much on cruise control.. i changed up my diet and added cardio. Last time i check im at 213 at 14% which puts me at 184 lean mass. that means ive increased 12 pounds of meat since i started in 11 weeeks. total weight gain would be 21 pounds. im starting to do cardio so i have been at the same weight even dropped some. so i have to rely on caliper test for now to see how much lean mass im gaining. ok cheers for now!:) oh and i feel thick as hell.

[peptidoglycan]

UPDATE WEEK 14

Well its my last week. the winny has done some tendon and joint drying so ive taken it easy on heavy lifting. i do one heavy set then a bunch of volume training. ive def leaned up and have some really nice thickness. i will post pictures after this fridays posing practice. Those will be my last ones and then ill pct and be done until my October show precontest cycle. I ran out of test from my main vials so i have to bust out the iranian amps for my last pin. i have a bad feeling about the recovery.. its gunna suck. i dont want to stop taking test haha...

[NotEnoughWeights]

Looking forward to see the pics, great log BTW

[CollinDC]

Looking forward to see the pics, great log BTW

curious to see how your progress has been man, im sure you wont dissapoint :D

[peptidoglycan]

End of Week 14 : THE LAST PIN

First before anything some encouraging pct advice is welcomed at this point!

Secondly i would like to say i will be posting end of cycle pics tonight or tomorrow morning just so im dryer!n I am really excited to show you guys. I weight 203 right now my top weight during cycle was 212. i came from 192. it is amazing i def added some nice lean muscle. i will post before and after.

Thirdly, Thank you everyone for making my second cycle a success i soaked in all of your guys advice and i had the smoothest cycle ever..

fourthly, i will be competing in a fall series any drug regimen is welcome for a first time competitor.

See you guys soon!

[Jello]

End of Week 14 : THE LAST PIN

First before anything some encouraging pct advice is welcomed at this point!

Secondly i would like to say i will be posting end of cycle pics tonight or tomorrow morning just so im dryer!n I am really excited to show you guys. I weight 203 right now my top weight during cycle was 212. i came from 192. it is amazing i def added some nice lean muscle. i will post before and after.

Thirdly, Thank you everyone for making my second cycle a success i soaked in all of your guys advice and i had the smoothest cycle ever..

fourthly, i will be competing in a fall series any drug regimen is welcome for a first time competitor.

See you guys soon!

Damn Bro, good job. I can't wait to see those pics, in a heterosexual way of course:cool:

I have learned to just really stick to a log book when I hit PCT. It helps me keep going when I just feel like a little bitch:eek: It's easy to be motivated when you are on cycle, not so much after, especially when you just don't get the same pumps. Again, great job.

[peptidoglycan]

2 first are BEFORE And the rest are AFTER Biggest change i think are wheels, back and chest... well those are what i concentrated on the most and i saw the results..

[THE JUICE MAN]

Hey man great work. looking sharp Keep it up.

[Go.It.Alone.]

dude, you def put on some size in your chest but you made some serious progress on your legs and your back if fuckin' beastly son. nice work!!!

[peptidoglycan]

dude, you def put on some size in your chest but you made some serious progress on your legs and your back if fuckin' beastly son. nice work!!!

thanks bro!!! hope u do the same before and after man.. those pics were at night so i was pretty bloated but the bathroom pic was the fallowing morning. you can tell i get way dry and tight with the winny... i bet your comming along great what week is it?

[peptidoglycan]

17" arms yah.. just got em... :)

[priest]

your back is ripped! i hope i can get mine to look like that.

[joe4fsu]

Good work on the wheels... you find as you get older that with the same hard work they get more developed...

[peptidoglycan]

thanks joe.. nothing works like squats thats all i gata say.

[peptidoglycan]

OK question when should i stop taking ARIMIDEX?

[joe4fsu]

before PCT

[peptidoglycan]

got it thanks joe. i did some reading and saw that it will just rebound estro later if i take it through pct and is counteracts pct in some way cant remember why but,, eh,, sounds good.

[peptidoglycan]

2,640 view daaaammmmmnnn. i hope everyone is learning something.

[peptidoglycan]

i have came along way.. pct even after i discontinued cloming and nolva had effected me... but now im back in action. i stayed working out all the way through. i used my hate to fuel me through. i dieted just right. and am 8 weeks out of my first contest... i have a cycle lined up 6 weeks out that i will be logging. writting will help me stay focused.. i have learned 10 books worth by listening to you guys and through experience.. a good one at that. my plans are

in 2 weeks i will be starting

Test P 100mg EOD 1-8
MAsteron 100mg EOD 1-8
Winny 50mg ED 2-8
letro .60 ED
Clen 120mg ED one week on one week off.


Then next march i will be starting

Dbol 15mg ED 1-4
Iranian Test 2ml split twice weekly 1-12