First Cycle

[utex45]

Been on this board for about 2 years, doing research etc. Finally at the point where I think I'm ready for a first cycle. Was thinking about a 10 week 500mg/wk Test cycle with TBol @ 40mg/d for weeks 1-4. Then I read that you probably want to go with Test only first. So here's what I am looking at:

Test E 500mg/wk 1-10 (250mg 2 times a week)
Arimidex .25 EOD 1-10

PCT:

Starting in Week 13: Nolva 40/30/20
Clomid 100/50/50

Maybe throw in some Lean Xtreme for Cortisol.

Pondering maybe going to 400mg/wk on the Test E and stretching to 12 weeks. Not sure which would be best.

Another question, how much water retention can I expect on Test. Really don't care to be too bloated that's why I was thinking about Tbol or EQ. However, if with proper PCT I can drop the water and maintain the gains then I'll live.

Have been dropping bodyfat over the last 3 months and current stats are:

5'7 170lbs @ 12% bf

Got the diet and training down. Found the CKD to really work well for me and probably continue on it. I am thinking that the lack of carbs will help keep the water retention down. Will up the protein to 2g/lb and the good fats. Also been training for over 25 years.

[ojs]

Everything looks good to me. But I would hold off on the Adex until you actually need it. You'll get much better gains if you don't choke the estrogen.

1-10 - Test E 375-400mg/wk
*(if bloat gets too uncomfortable: Adex .25 EOD)

This should go very smooth for you.

[jdchaffin]

Don't worry about the t-bol right away. just get an understanding of how test alone works in your system first. then you have something to go on instead of wondering if the t-bol was the cause of something odd.

[drob29]

....5'7 170lbs @ 12% bf.....

hmmmm....what are your goals?

[utex45]

Eventually up to around 185 at the same bf or less.

[The BB Monad]

Just go with OJS's advice! No adex unless you know you need it.

[utex45]

Another question: With a clean diet and only carbing on the weekend what kind of water retentions should I expect?

[drob29]

Eventually up to around 185 at the same bf or less.

well IMO you dont need AAS to do that. You need to eat to bulk up, then cut some fat.

I have seen this before, where guys are afraid of putting of some bulk, bloat and fat and want to maintain the same bf% and just add muscle, which is hard to do.

But, if your going to do the cycle then bump OJS's post.

I will add to get to 185 post cycle, say 6 weeks after your last test shot, you will need to hit 195 on cycle, which will involve a LARGE volume of food, and if your 170 and cant gain I am not convinced (not that I need to be) that your diet will support your goal.

"my 2 cents"

[utex45]

Probably should have been more clear that my goal is to be at 185 to 190 with lower BF by the end of the year..
I really don't want to do the yo-yo thing where you bulk and then cut. Would rather put quality muscle on with a clean diet. Did they bulk/cut thing 20 yrs ago to compete. Would bulk to 195 and cut to 160 over 10 weeks. Absolutely hated it.

[drob29]

Probably should have been more clear that my goal is to be at 185 to 190 with lower BF by the end of the year..
I really don't want to do the yo-yo thing where you bulk and then cut. Would rather put quality muscle on with a clean diet. Did they bulk/cut thing 20 yrs ago to compete. Would bulk to 195 and cut to 160 over 10 weeks. Absolutely hated it.

just be aware on cycle your caloric/food needs will increase greatly from a non-cycle diet. Can you post up what your thinking of for an on cycle diet?

And wouldn't we all like to gain 25 lbs of lean muscle without adding some fat! IMO its part of the deal with the devil and if your goal is to be reached you will need to add some fat and cut it after.

. Did they bulk/cut thing 20 yrs ago to compete. Would bulk to 195 and cut to 160 over 10 weeks. Absolutely hated it.

Thats insane and unhealthy IMO. I'm not talking about something this drastic, I am talking dropping 10 lbs of fat/bloat over an 2 month period.

"another 2 cents"

[utex45]

keep in mind that was the eat everything in site to gain muscle while training diet that was popular 25 years ago. Much smarter and scientific now days. As far as diet will split out in 6 meals with clean sources of protein, fat. Plenty of green vegatables and carbs from brown rice, yams, etc. Good fats from flax, nuts, etc.

Right now looking at caloric intake:

Protein 350g (1400 cal)
Fat 100g (1000 cal)
Carbs 250g (1000 cal)

Total calories approx 3500

Have been using a CKD but don't think I can get enough calories to make descent gains. Unless I turn this into a recomp and up the protein and fat and drop the carbs during the week and carb load only on the weekend. Then my goals would need to change to maybe 170-175 with lower bf levels.

I guess I am struggling with what everyone else does. The need to bulk but not gain a lot of fat. Given the success that I have had with the diet this last 3 months, the prudent thing is to go to a 3500 to 4000 cal diet through PCT then go back to the CKD after while off cycle.

[ojs]

I've always used a CKD. The problem is exactly the same as someone using a non CKD diet. You have to learn how to eat or you can't grow. The only thing that is different in using a CKD is that you take your full week's worth of calories and divide by 7 to get your daily calorie average.

Personally I prefer a CKD.

[utex45]

So do you think on this cycle, using a CKD and just upping the protein and fat during the week and carbs on the weekend would be just as effective.