Couple First Cycle Questions

[2evil]

I'm planning out my first cycle starting October/November. I'm planning on dieting down until then.

So far my plan is to run Test E or C @ 250 - 500mg PW and possibly mixing in EQ @ 200mg PW. If you were running your first cycle, would you go with test only or mix in EQ (or something else)?

I've read a lot of mixed results as far as front loading and/or running under 500mg of test. My thought was to start w/ 250 and see how my body reacts.

Opinions?

Keep in mind, I'm 34 y/o with a good, sound base and diet. I'm in no hurry and have no intention of "getting huge quick" Right now I'm dieting down will ramp up calories while on.

I'm pretty solid on PCT but am still researching hCG and it's use. I'm also thinking of skipping Clomid completely and sticking with Nolva and the recovery stack from PP.

My training looks like this:

M- Squat, 4 set pyramid, dead lift 4 set pyramid, one or two ISO pyramid
T- 40 min cardio
W- Chest & Shoulders - Flat Bench 4-5 set pyramid, Incline/ Decline 3 set pyramid, various shoulder/ trap/ delt
Th- 40 min cardio
Fri- Back & Bi- rows, preacher/ reverse/ lats/ B/O rows
S- 1 hour cardio (bike ride)

Thanks in advance.

[juced_porkchop]

I'm planning out my first cycle starting October/November. I'm planning on dieting down until then.

So far my plan is to run Test E or C @ 250 - 500mg PW and possibly mixing in EQ @ 200mg PW. If you were running your first cycle, would you go with test only or mix in EQ (or something else)?

I've read a lot of mixed results as far as front loading and/or running under 500mg of test. My thought was to start w/ 250 and see how my body reacts.

Opinions?

Keep in mind, I'm 34 y/o with a good, sound base and diet. I'm in no hurry and have no intention of "getting huge quick" Right now I'm dieting down will ramp up calories while on.

I'm pretty solid on PCT but am still researching hCG and it's use. I'm also thinking of skipping Clomid completely and sticking with Nolva and the recovery stack from PP.

My training looks like this:

M- Squat, 4 set pyramid, dead lift 4 set pyramid, one or two ISO pyramid
T- 40 min cardio
W- Chest & Shoulders - Flat Bench 4-5 set pyramid, Incline/ Decline 3 set pyramid, various shoulder/ trap/ delt
Th- 40 min cardio
Fri- Back & Bi- rows, preacher/ reverse/ lats/ B/O rows
S- 1 hour cardio (bike ride)

Thanks in advance.

HI! welcome!

ok first i will say u will over train and not be recovering your body or CNS with heavy cardio on off days. only work out eod "3-4days a week" cut out cardio on rest days maybe light cardio like walking.i feel you would grow faster and more if you do this. i mean this is for bulking so u need to rest/sleep well. now id say do 20-30min cardio ON work out days after you work out later in the day to keep cardio in there still maybe??.
but what u have posted up is vary nice i just think to much cardio when u need to rest.

ok now to the Q about cycle:
i would say fir first cycle test e or cyp only is probibly your best bet at 300-500mg ew.
only thing i might add is provimed at 25-50mg ed "its not liver toxic" and i feel will enhance effect of test. but wouldent rec anything els first time round.
somthing like this:

test cyp 400mg ew wk1-14
proviron 25-50mg ed wk1-16
PCT wk17-20 nolva 30mg/20mg/20mg/20mg ed

MAKE SURE U HAVE AN AI ON HAND LIKe LETRO!!!!"i like letro the best"
nolva may block gyono if it arises but the estro will still be high and when u stop it may be bad. dont use it for gyno use letro or another ai
i use letro at .25-.5mg ed-eod for gyno.bloat issues and it works well.

alin has it its a vary small pills of letro so it may be pain in ass to make it into 10parts "thos i still do lol" so id rec cut into 4 parts and take eod - e3d.
id also suggest not to take it unless u need it as some say u might gain a bit less .
proviron is a mild anti-e so u might be ok. this you will al learn and is why test only is best so u know if u had bloat issu or acne or what not u would know wich is causing it.

make sure u have letro and maybe run proviron in your cycles but other then that stick to only test this time around.
good luck!!

[giff]

i qwould go with test e or c for 12 weeks then pct with clomid?? what are your reasons for not including it? nolv and clom go very well together in pct

[joe4fsu]

bump juiced and giff... I would not use the EQ on your first cycle... stick with the test....

can you post your diet?

Some people on the board might say if you have that high BF how can you be eating clean....

[2evil]

juced_porkchop: Thanks very much for the input. I'm definitely going to leave the EQ out of the mix for the first cycle. I'm only doing the cardio now while I continue to lean out. I'll continue this for the next few months. I was planning on using Arimidex. Is Letro in favor now?

Giff: I know there are a lot of people who believe in/ use Clomid. I don't have experience with it but in one of the other forums I visit it seems that it's out of favor because of the sides. A lot of people are just increasing their Nolva dose. I'm not set on this, so feedback is welcome.

bump juiced and giff... I would not use the EQ on your first cycle... stick with the test....

can you post your diet?

Some people on the board might say if you have that high BF how can you be eating clean....

Since I'm cutting my diet is calorie restricted with high omega3s, low gluten and low simple carbs. I'm getting about 2400 calories per day with 1500-1700 of these being protein. I eat mainly tuna, salmon, lobster, flax oil and meal, crab, shrimp and lean steak. I throw a porterhouse in there every now and then. I even (and this is gross) have a can of tuna in my whey protein shake. Hold your nose as it goes down. Not really as bad as it sounds but will wake you up first thing in the AM.

Once on cycle, I plan to add about 2000 more calories. I'm thinking of dumping tuna almost completely for salmon and adding in a lot of peanut and cashew butter on whole wheat. More steak is always good.

So right now, this is a six month+ plan. I won't begin a cycle until I've attained 12% BF.

One thing I didn't mention is that I had a back injury in 2007 that kind of messed me up. So I've gained some BF and lost some strength that I've been getting back in line for the last few months.

If that's Oct/Nov then great. If it's Jan/ Feb so be it. Fuck, I'm 34. I don't need to be ready for NFL training camp :)

Thanks for all the help and comments.

[2evil]

Also, meant to ask what the reasoning is behind not including EQ. My own thought was that if sides occurred and I was using both Test and EQ I wouldn't have as easy of a time figuring out which compound was causing the issue. Just want to make sure my reasoning is sound and on the right page here.

Also, in my research, I'm finding very little difference in the effect of the Test E and Test Cyp ester. Is this your experience?

[The BB Monad]

First cycle just Test for 12 weeks at around 500mg / week.

PCT with clomid and Nolva.

That's it... your best cycle ever with the best possible gains. Just make sure you train, eat and rest properly...

Leave the Eq for a future cycle, maybe around summertime to gain lean mass.

[Ed17447]

First cycle is always the best one. You'll get great gains from just test. Cyp or E, it doesn't really matter. If you keep a high calorie ( clean calories ), high protien diet, you will get great results. save the EQ for your second cycle. What sides are you talking about with the clomid? The clomid will help jump start your natural production again. 500mg of test a week is a good first cycle.

[2evil]

What sides are you talking about with the clomid? The clomid will help jump start your natural production again.

On another "big name" board a lot of the guys are skipping the clomid and using hCG on cycle, nolva and the primordial test recovery stack (http://www.primordialperformance.com/testosterone_recovery_stack.cfm) instead of clomid. The main side I've heard of w/ clomid are the emotional swings. I'm not set on skipping it, still researching.

BUT, I can't cry ole yellar dies! ;)

[VTliftVT]

theres a post thats up recently that Tyrone brought up in which Dr. Swale (big name endo in bodybuilding) suggests the use of HCG through the cycle up to PCT and nolvadex only, no clomid. You can search for it im sure.

[newguy666]

try doing light cardio post workout for 15 min while your body is in the "fat burning zone."

spread your workouts out.... 2 on 1 off.

use hcg on cycle.

good luck.

[2evil]

I'll start this. As nice as it is may just hit the bike for a few miles right after...

[Superman66]

theres a post thats up recently that Tyrone brought up in which Dr. Swale (big name endo in bodybuilding) suggests the use of HCG through the cycle up to PCT and nolvadex only, no clomid. You can search for it im sure.


why not clomid bro? hcg helps stimulate the gonads but clomid is an HTPA stimulater. nolvadex dosent. so why not clomid?

[newguy666]

I'll start this. As nice as it is may just hit the bike for a few miles right after...

take bcaa pre,mid, and post workout.... make sure you dont exceed your target heart rate on the bike.

good luck!!

[jjgonz]

the problem with hcg during pct is that it mimics certain things in the body thus keeping your nuts from atrophying etc...which in the end will make pct smoother....people think this is recovery but its not and its not natural...so hcg during pct does more harm than good...sorry for not going into specifics i worked a long ass day and im half asleep run a search through my posts about hcg ive explained the logic behind this many times....and your right in your thinking about no eq on your first run...you want to know how your body reacts to test before you add compounds...also letro is best for fighting gyno but if you take adex you should be fine controlling bloat gyno etc. IMO...but its always a good idea to have letro on the side just incase you get gyno....bump on not training too often...and you may want to bring up the calories a bit more for your cycle also...but play it by ear...just remember aas is only responsible for 15% of gains diet rest and routine cover the other 85%...best of luck bro and welcome to the board