EQ/TestE/Proviron Cycle

[TopGun1051]

Hey guys; I appreciate and respect your Xp and opinions. I'm trying to create a beginner cycle for the Winter. Everybody says screw TBol only first cycle so maybe i'll save it for a Summer cycle (w Test?) or something.

I'm looking for lean gains (I realize diet and aerobics is 80%), strenghten tendons and ligs (EQ?) get stronger. Keep water weight low (proviron?), better red blood cell count (EQ?), don't want to shut down libido (Pro/TestE?). Want to retain as much of gains afterwards as possible (Pro/PCT?). What is your honest opinion on the following, is this TOO much/not enough for a first cycle, and how retarded does this sound? Thanks

week 1-12 ED 400mg EQ
week 1-12 ED 200mg TestE
week 1-12 ED 25mg Proviron

week 14 ED 60mg Nolva
week 15 ED 40mg Nolva
week 16 ED 20mg Nolva

Hear bad things about Clomid not sure about adding it. Thanks

[xxxcaptjackxxx]

I think 2800 mg of Eq and 1400mg of test e a week is over doing it:D

Im sure thats a typo tho, ya?

[VTliftVT]

Ok, so here's the deal:

this being your first cycle you may get some results from running test that low, I would personally go atleast 300mg/week but you can try the 200mg/week to see how you respond. You want the anabolic higher in this cycle obviously so that looks good. All I can see that I would change is running your test 2 weeks longer than the eq. well eq is a long ester and you want to run atleast 12 weeks to see some good results so i would adjust the test 2 weeks longer (14 overall).

As for your pct, nolva blocks estrogen conversion for the most part where you can say clomid is the main way to get your natty test levels back up (stimulates the production of LH). Yes, some people experience bad sides with clomid but not most of us. YOU SHOULD ADD THE CLOMID. Not adding clomid will take your body much longer to return to its normal hormone levels and much of the muscle you gained can be lost.

[VTliftVT]

I think 2800 mg of Eq and 1400mg of test e a week is over doing it:D

Im sure thats a typo tho, ya?

haha bump, hope thats EW, not ED! lol

[ojs]

Hey guys; I appreciate and respect your Xp and opinions. I'm trying to create a beginner cycle for the Winter. Everybody says screw TBol only first cycle so maybe i'll save it for a Summer cycle (w Test?) or something.

I'm looking for lean gains (I realize diet and aerobics is 80%), strenghten tendons and ligs (EQ?) get stronger. Keep water weight low (proviron?), better red blood cell count (EQ?), don't want to shut down libido (Pro/TestE?). Want to retain as much of gains afterwards as possible (Pro/PCT?). What is your honest opinion on the following, is this TOO much/not enough for a first cycle, and how retarded does this sound? Thanks

week 1-12 ED 400mg EQ
week 1-12 ED 200mg TestE
week 1-12 ED 25mg Proviron

week 14 ED 60mg Nolva
week 15 ED 40mg Nolva
week 16 ED 20mg Nolva

Hear bad things about Clomid not sure about adding it. Thanks
This isn't bad at all. Except, if this is your first cycle is should be ONE compound. Your combo is perfect for the second cycle.

First Cycle:
week 1-10 375mg Test E /wk
week 1-10 25mg Proviron ED

[BB Monadess]

OJS knows his stuff so follow his advice. From what I've read all over the place the first cycle can go up as high as 500mg Test / week.

[JohnnyPro]

Alin's newbie cycle silver #2 is your best best it it's your first cycle

[TopGun1051]

I think 2800 mg of Eq and 1400mg of test e a week is over doing it:D

Im sure thats a typo tho, ya?

DAMN! Your right, I meant "every week" pins of EQ and TestE not "every day" Ouuccchhhh!!

And I will order the Clomid, really if I have bad side I can just nix it right? And I realize these are probably low dosages but maybe not for a newbie and I probably should just do a TestE cycle alone so I know exactly what it'll do to me but I really like the sounds of the positives from the EQ and Proviron if i'm wrong let me know. The help is greatly appreciated. Have a GREAT weekend all! :D

[drob29]

Hey guys; I appreciate and respect your Xp and opinions. I'm trying to create a beginner cycle for the Winter. Everybody says screw TBol only first cycle so maybe i'll save it for a Summer cycle (w Test?) or something.

I'm looking for lean gains (I realize diet and aerobics is 80%), strenghten tendons and ligs (EQ?) get stronger. Keep water weight low (proviron?), better red blood cell count (EQ?), don't want to shut down libido (Pro/TestE?). Want to retain as much of gains afterwards as possible (Pro/PCT?). What is your honest opinion on the following, is this TOO much/not enough for a first cycle, and how retarded does this sound? Thanks

week 1-12 ED 400mg EQ
week 1-12 ED 200mg TestE
week 1-12 ED 25mg Proviron

week 14 ED 60mg Nolva
week 15 ED 40mg Nolva
week 16 ED 20mg Nolva

Hear bad things about Clomid not sure about adding it. Thanks

I dont like it, not for your first cycle.

do this instead:

week 1-12 test e 500 mg wk (2 pokes 3.5 days apart 250 mg each)

then PCT

week 15 clomid 100 mg ed/nolva 40 mg ed
week 16 clomid 50 mg ed/nolva 30 mg ed
week 17 clomid 50 mg ed/nolva 20 mg ed

Dont run the androgenic higher than the anabolic on the first cycle. That comes later. Dont overthink your first cycle, just think TEST THEN PCT.

OJS knows his stuff so follow his advice. From what I've read all over the place the first cycle can go up as high as 500mg Test / week.

and bbmonadness knows that ojs knows his stuff so I know that when bbmonadness says she knows ojs knows then I know you know you can take that to the bank. Know what I mean? lol....

or better put, this is why people who have no experience running test at 500 mg per week should refrain from offering here-say advice in threads about running test at 500 mg per week.

later:cool:

[TopGun1051]

This isn't bad at all. Except, if this is your first cycle is should be ONE compound. Your combo is perfect for the second cycle.

First Cycle:
week 1-10 375mg Test E /wk
week 1-10 25mg Proviron ED

I agree with a LOT of what you (OJS) tell other guys, and I respect your age, so i'll consider this, I was thinking I probably shouldn't complicate things too much w/ multiple compounds. And your probably right that upping the dosage and adding EQ to the next one might be good. Thanks

[lola26]

just run test e for 12 weeks. then pct.

[ojs]

I agree with a LOT of what you (OJS) tell other guys, and I respect your age, so i'll consider this, I was thinking I probably shouldn't complicate things too much w/ multiple compounds. And your probably right that upping the dosage and adding EQ to the next one might be good. ThanksI'm just trying to cut your compounds down. If you'll listen then do just ONE compound.

Just like drob and lola posted is the right way to think. One compound first cycles just make the most sense.

Myself I like starting light on the first cycle and then going from there. Some guys respond very well to low dose of Testosterone but never knew it because they started at 500mg.

wk 1-10 Test C 375mg/ wk (2 pins /wk 0.75cc each)

PCT
wk 15 clomid 100mg /nolva 40mg ED
wk 16 clomid 50mg /nolva 30mg ED
wk 17 clomid 50mg /nolva 20mg ED

Have Adex on hand. I wouldn't use it at this low dosage unless you start bloating excessively.

[TopGun1051]

I'm just trying to cut your compounds down. If you'll listen then do just ONE compound.

Just like drob and lola posted is the right way to think. One compound first cycles just make the most sense.

Myself I like starting light on the first cycle and then going from there. Some guys respond very well to low dose of Testosterone but never knew it because they started at 500mg.

wk 1-10 Test C 375mg/ wk (2 pins /wk 0.75cc each)

PCT
wk 15 clomid 100mg /nolva 40mg ED
wk 16 clomid 50mg /nolva 30mg ED
wk 17 clomid 50mg /nolva 20mg ED

Have Adex on hand. I wouldn't use it at this low dosage unless you start bloating excessively.

I understand what your saying, and of course it makes sense. You use one compound at a time so you can know what it does for "you" specifically. And I don't doubt a low dose will work pretty good having never done anything before. I'll have to do some research on Arimidex don't know much about. Is Adex/Proviron similiar? You don't like the idea of running Proviron alongside the Test cycle you've suggested? Thanks

[lola26]

whats your actual bf?

[TopGun1051]

whats your actual bf?

Honestly I don't know what it is. :(

[lola26]

pics?

[TopGun1051]

I'm just trying to cut your compounds down. If you'll listen then do just ONE compound.

Just like drob and lola posted is the right way to think. One compound first cycles just make the most sense.

Myself I like starting light on the first cycle and then going from there. Some guys respond very well to low dose of Testosterone but never knew it because they started at 500mg.

wk 1-10 Test C 375mg/ wk (2 pins /wk 0.75cc each)

PCT
wk 15 clomid 100mg /nolva 40mg ED
wk 16 clomid 50mg /nolva 30mg ED
wk 17 clomid 50mg /nolva 20mg ED

Have Adex on hand. I wouldn't use it at this low dosage unless you start bloating excessively.

OJS I like this plan. It doesn't matter testE or C? You have PCT starting a month after the cycle? Is that right? Seems like it should be closer but maybe i'm wrong. And what is the diff between Adex and Proviron? Is it too much to add 25mg of proviron to this cycle or should I wait to see what the sides are like?

And Lola i'm warry about posting pics because of security reasons, etc etc I know your trying to help. my waist is a 38" if that means anything and I can't see abs etc. I'm sure i'm above the BF% that you guys would advise starting AAS. Thanks

[VTliftVT]

test e and c are very similar in ester length so you could run either. still would inject twice weekly (mon. and thur usually).

for the pct, start two weeks after the last pin. i think ojs just copied and pasted and didnt see the date.

adex is an AI where as proviron is a DHT compound which can help increase libido and prevents estrogen build up and stoping estrogen related sides. i wouldnt add proviron to your first cycle as you should not have any problems with the type of cycle you are running and you also want to keep to a single compound to judge your reaction to test.

[TopGun1051]

test e and c are very similar in ester length so you could run either. still would inject twice weekly (mon. and thur usually).

for the pct, start two weeks after the last pin. i think ojs just copied and pasted and didnt see the date.

adex is an AI where as proviron is a DHT compound which can help increase libido and prevents estrogen build up and stoping estrogen related sides. i wouldnt add proviron to your first cycle as you should not have any problems with the type of cycle you are running and you also want to keep to a single compound to judge your reaction to test.

Thanks VT, maybe i'll have some adex at the ready and i'll try Proviron in the future. I agree I should see how I react to test alone. Thanks.

[lola26]

if you know your bf is too high, why are you cycling anyway? do you want to wear a bra later in life?

[TopGun1051]

if you know your bf is too high, why are you cycling anyway? do you want to wear a bra later in life?

Of course not; are tits an absolute given? This will probably sound retarded to you but I have PowerLifting friends that take shit, and they carry a lot more fat than I have right now. No, I don't know exactly what they take, how much or when etc. but I know they juice. Is gyno a given unless your 12% BF? Thanks for your input

[VTliftVT]

no gyno is not a given however your hormones are in a completely different state when at a high level of bodyfat. this means that your body is more succeptable to aromatization of testosterone into estrogen creating adverse (gyno) type effects. you may not at 40% BF get gyno but your body would be housing an environment that would support gyno easier than if you were at 10% BF.

[lola26]

its not just gyno you have to worry about. search it!

[TopGun1051]

its not just gyno you have to worry about. search it!

no way am I 40% BF. I think my best guess having seen others in the gym and knowing their BF i'm best case around 18% worst case 25%. I carry what I have because whatever it is helps me to stay strong and helps me recovery if that makes sense. One time a few months back I dieted down to 250, looked good but was considerably weaker and sore all the time. When I dieted down I did it w/ 60/20/20 prot/carbs(low gly)/fat(mono and polys) and that was 20# in a month (I was wrong when I said 2 weeks in another post, I went back and looked it up) w/ NO cardio, just diet.

Anyway Lola everyone on this board has good things to say about your opinion so I respect it. That being said can I ask you what your BF% was when you tried your first cycle? I understand other than gyno there's BP and Blood Lipid levels to worry about. My BP and Cholesterol has always been perfect my whole life. Thanks

[TopGun1051]

no gyno is not a given however your hormones are in a completely different state when at a high level of bodyfat. this means that your body is more succeptable to aromatization of testosterone into estrogen creating adverse (gyno) type effects. you may not at 40% BF get gyno but your body would be housing an environment that would support gyno easier than if you were at 10% BF.

Thanks for your input VT. My best guess is i'm between 18%-25%. I know thats pretty wide but it's the best I can do. I know what your saying and I don't disagree. So what if I use a compound that doesn't aromatize (is that the correct word?) as much as test. Something like EQ? Then I would know a lot about how I would react, right? Thanks

[VTliftVT]

i wasn't stating your were 40% bf, i was just using that as an example fwiw.

anyway, the thing is that you need to run test in most any cycle. no one on this board really advocates a cycle that does not have test as a base. reason being, most aas will shut down your natty test production and that can lead to all types of crap (ie limp dick). So yea, even if you ran EQ which isn't as hard on the HPTA and may not aromatize, you would still want to run atleast a low dose test with it.

we all understand you want to run a cycle but think about the long run. is it worth it now to take a chance on running a cycle and potentially messing yourself up and winding up in a situation 10 times worse than yours is now? why not take everyones advice and get your BF% down just to be safe. You will also see much better results with this...as in visually. There is NO reason to rush things. Look at OJS, he's kickin ass on this board and is older than youself. He looks far better than most of us do at 24. Obviously you will end up doing whatever it is you feel and may not take others advice, which is understandable bc we all want results NOW, i get that.

And I know you asked LOLA but I ran my first cycle at around 8%...

[lola26]

I carry what I have because whatever it is helps me to stay strong and helps me recovery if that makes sense. One time a few months back I dieted down to 250, looked good but was considerably weaker and sore all the time. perfect my whole life. Thanks

fat will not help you "stay strong" "recover" or whatever you said. you were weaker not because you were 250, you were weaker because you just cut a ton of weight and lost some lean muscle as well. you need to allow your body to adjust.

[TopGun1051]

fat will not help you "stay strong" "recover" or whatever you said. you were weaker not because you were 250, you were weaker because you just cut a ton of weight and lost some lean muscle as well. you need to allow your body to adjust.

Yeah your right. I'm sure I lost muscle mass cause I dropped too much too quickly. That makes sense. I figured I needed 3500 for maintenance on a workout day/ 3000 cal for maint on a non workout day so I tried to stay 200-300 cal under those numbers to cut. I think I figured the Maint cals too low so I lost too much too quick. I know you need as much info as possible to make the best recommendations and i'm trying to be honest as I can. Let's assume i'm too fat and gyno prone, etc, etc. Is 250mg TestE weekly for 10 weeks a safe play or a waste of time IYO? Assuming Adex on hand for possible therapy during cycle and proper Clomid/Nolva PCT? Thanks

[TopGun1051]

i wasn't stating your were 40% bf, i was just using that as an example fwiw.

anyway, the thing is that you need to run test in most any cycle. no one on this board really advocates a cycle that does not have test as a base. reason being, most aas will shut down your natty test production and that can lead to all types of crap (ie limp dick). So yea, even if you ran EQ which isn't as hard on the HPTA and may not aromatize, you would still want to run atleast a low dose test with it.

we all understand you want to run a cycle but think about the long run. is it worth it now to take a chance on running a cycle and potentially messing yourself up and winding up in a situation 10 times worse than yours is now? why not take everyones advice and get your BF% down just to be safe. You will also see much better results with this...as in visually. There is NO reason to rush things. Look at OJS, he's kickin ass on this board and is older than youself. He looks far better than most of us do at 24. Obviously you will end up doing whatever it is you feel and may not take others advice, which is understandable bc we all want results NOW, i get that.

And I know you asked LOLA but I ran my first cycle at around 8%...


VT I have no doubt this is excellent advice and i'll try to be patient. Your right about OJS. I don't remember his listed BF% off the top of my head, but I know he looks pretty fucking good for 55. My goal is to look that good or try to by the time im 50. So there's plenty of time. I remember years ago, maybe 3 or 5. I was 275 or 280 and fat. A friend gave me some Clen to try for a month and I did. I lost 20pnd without doing a damn thing different, no working out, shitty diet, etc. Maybe i'll think about trying a cycle of clen/t3 before I give AAS a shot. I dunno. Thanks for the input though.

[lola26]

if your set on running it, run this;

test enth 500mg/w for 12-14 weeks.
run adex at .5mg eod
proper pct 15 days after last pin.