losing gains

[iamgreat187]

i went out of town and couldnt take pct for 4 days.i just finished a cycle it consisted of.....test e wk 1-10 at 500mgs/wk,also tren week5-7 at 50 mgs EOD.i finished the cycle weighing 178 now im down to 165 and its been 9 days into pct!!can someone help me?can the loses be from missing 4 days of pct?my pct is nolvadex at 60 mgs week1,40mgs week 2, and 20 mgs week3...thoughts???

[amnbaker]

It sounds like those were'nt gains. I dont think you could lose 13lbs of lean muscle in 9 days bro. hopefully the lbs were just water, maybe a little muscle and fat?

[iamgreat187]

i do think some was fat althrough i dont have much im bout 8 % prolly lower maybe water weight i dont know but i look pretty then i dont know what to do i guess wait it out.

[amnbaker]

biggest thing: KEEP eating BIG. And dont over do it on the cardio for 2 or 3 months until all your levels balance back out.

[iamgreat187]

i dont even bother with cardio but most def i think i need to eat more, hopefully that will do it.

[ojs]

What was your weight and bodyfat before starting your cycle?

[lola26]

a lot is water. i told you not to cycle until you learned to eat and you still did want you wanted. in every thread you tell us you are a different weight, make up your mind. yu should post some pics.

[iamgreat187]

my weight was bout 155 but that was cus i got really sick and my body was bout the same, my base weight was 165, im not sure whats going on maybe i should start taking creatine and gain some water weight.

[iamgreat187]

i know sorry my weight keeps jumping around i mean daily it sucks its never the same.

[ojs]

i know sorry my weight keeps jumping around i mean daily it sucks its never the same.
That would suggest that your diet is crap! A cycle is worthless if you don't eat right. You just inflate and deflate like a balloon. I wouldn't be surprised if you training sucks too.

[iamgreat187]

my training is fine i know its my diet i guess i need to get it down before my next cycle...i try and keep my cals at 3000 and my protien high but its not consistent so i know i fucked up.

[lola26]

3000 cals?? are you talking about breakfast????

[lola26]

where are those pic?

[iamgreat187]

im trying and my piece of shit comp keeps saying program not responding....fucking gay shit....

[cjjrwe]

Your PCT was just Nolva? No Clomid, etc?

[iamgreat187]

no clomid just nolva but im thinking i lost so much of my gains cus of the missed 4 days i went on a flight and couldnt take my stuff....also when i was over there i was lucky to get in 1500 cals it sucked but i still dont see how i could lose that much...its really irratating.

[ojs]

im trying and my piece of shit comp keeps saying program not responding....fucking gay shit....
did you resize them correctly?

[iamgreat187]

its not that i think my comp has a virus and when i try to open the folder it takes forever and never opens then a screen pops up saying program not responding then it closes...let me try again.

[The BB Monad]

No Clomid during PCT??? Only 3000 calories a day??? You have got to be joking with us!!!

[iamgreat187]

these are not the best pics but the only ones i have after cycle well i was weighing in at 175 here at least they show my body.

[iamgreat187]

i read the most people dont use clomid since it makes you all sensitive and weird....should i add it?should i boost my cals to 4000?5000?

[VTliftVT]

yes, clomid is really what gets your natty test going, you want natural test right!?!?!?!?!

you HAVE to eat more! you need to be eating just as big if not bigger than you were on your cycle. you still dont listen to anyone and you obviously had no idea what you were doing. your pics look good, you have a great base, you just need to learn the basics first. the majority of what you lost was water, thats no doubt. but your pct sucked and you were really only blocking estrogen and not getting your natty test back up which means you probably did lose some muscle.

[iamgreat187]

damn well my next cycle i will most def use clomid,and no i am kinda lost but thats why yall are here!!thanks for the replys i do need to eat more i know that.is there anything else i can do right now?other than clomid is there anything i can take to get some muscle back other than igf although i will prolly try igf for sure.

[mac_c_uk]

yes, clomid is really what gets your natty test going, you want natural test right!?!?!?!?!



Is this true? I've been reading on various other sites that this is in fact not. Here's a quote from another forum i frequent...

"Clomid does not, as is often thought, stimulate the release of natural testosterone, but rather works at reducing the oestrogenic inhibition caused by the steroid cycle. It does this in a similar manner to the way it and Nolvadex block oestrogen receptors in nipples to combat gyno development, i.e. by blocking the oestrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary thus reducing the inhibition from the elevated oestrogen. This allows LH levels to return to normal, or even above normal levels, and in turn, natural testosterone levels to also normalise."

[iamgreat187]

i have used nolva and clomid before but the cycle was an eq only cycle and in that cycle i gained about 17 pounds and kept it all,so it might have been the clomid but soon after i got pnuemonia and lost it all, really sucked balls.

[LeanMass17]

3,000 is a good amount of calories for your size bro....I agree you should always try to ingest more, but don't kill yourself if you miss a meal. You have an excellent base and it seems like your a mesomorph not an ecto so dont eat a bunch of crap in search of calories or you will end up fat. IMO for endo and mesomorphs it is better to eat a little less and stay clean than eat alot and fuck everything up.

[iamgreat187]

ok cool i thought 3000 might be ok i try and stay clean and prolly eat one unclean meal a day ya know just for the extra cals im prolly going to go out and get some trib since i didnt think i would need it but might as well...thanks for the responces again

[VTliftVT]

Is this true? I've been reading on various other sites that this is in fact not. Here's a quote from another forum i frequent...

"Clomid does not, as is often thought, stimulate the release of natural testosterone, but rather works at reducing the oestrogenic inhibition caused by the steroid cycle. It does this in a similar manner to the way it and Nolvadex block oestrogen receptors in nipples to combat gyno development, i.e. by blocking the oestrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary thus reducing the inhibition from the elevated oestrogen. This allows LH levels to return to normal, or even above normal levels, and in turn, natural testosterone levels to also normalise."

you will read conflicting results with everything, here is my info:

"Clomid is a drug given to women for use as a fertility aid. It is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) which acts by actually binding to the estrogen receptor and thereby blocking estrogen from doing the same. Clearly, this is advantageous when it binds to breast tissue, and prevents estrogen from binding there to cause gynocomastia (although it is not nearly as effective as nolvadex for this purpose). It also opposes the negative feedback loop that the body has with regards to estrogen and the HPTA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular-Axis), and this in turn stimulates LH (Leutenizing Hormone) and FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone). LH and FSH, in turn stimulate the release of testosterone."

[cpesloco]

i went out of town and couldnt take pct for 4 days.i just finished a cycle it consisted of.....test e wk 1-10 at 500mgs/wk,also tren week5-7 at 50 mgs EOD.i finished the cycle weighing 178 now im down to 165 and its been 9 days into pct!!can someone help me?can the loses be from missing 4 days of pct?my pct is nolvadex at 60 mgs week1,40mgs week 2, and 20 mgs week3...thoughts???

my weight was bout 155 but that was cus i got really sick and my body was bout the same, my base weight was 165, im not sure whats going on maybe i should start taking creatine and gain some water weight.

so you did a 10 WEEK CYCLE and you STILL weigh the same.....That's depressing...Your not eating enough...you seem pretty lean so you can afford to have some trash in your calories. To gain I would be around 4500+ if i were you. It's really not hard to do on a dirty bulk.

[WannaGetBigger]

I think it could be water weight.

For me I find the scale isn't the best indicator.
Using the mirror (and a camera) along with measurements, both before and after are the best gauges.

[lola26]

should have listened.. seems like a big waste now, uh?

[juced_porkchop]

im 5 '7 and 2500-3000 cals i cut on and its hard tokeep it under that lol. 4000-5000to put some lbs on whel bulking. im only about 187 pritty lean...well im cutting so im prob lower havent checked. point is u need to fukin learn how to eat and maybe train but atleast ea tu remind me of this guy i curently know thats been on 500mgtest and deca for 1.5yr now fukin guys face bloated and he looks liek he dont fukin work out!!! iv told him he doin somthing wrong and need to eat more and he say ya im tryin then i see pic on face book him al bloated with buds at pub with beer and chicken weeing on the pic .. fukin ideot .. juice wont do shit unless u got other stuff in check. this cummin from a guy rthat startes working out when first on aas "cuzz of accedent". even i knew i need to do it right or not do it at all!

[kevin3987]

a The kids pics for 22 did not look that bad.. that said u need to adjust urself bro or this is not going o work the wat it should 4 u, get it together with a nice lean frame like that i could do wonders though we have different bodie types your ecto & i am not..

[juced_porkchop]

yes i agree its not like you look even close to the friend i was just talkin bout. but by upping atleast 1000cals and keeping protein high woulda gained more and u should keep as high ifnot higher when off aas spesh pct part. your vary unstabel right now at this time.

[iamgreat187]

thanks guys well i think my training is fine the hard thing is the diet part i try to get in the most cals possible but its hard i guess a weight gainer would be good and a good diet to go along with it.now i learned without diet i aint got shit so next time i will most def fix that part and have a more agressive pct to go along with it...im going back up im at 168 but im sure its water im going to add creatine and glutamine and im on estrodex, not sure if its any goos but worth a try.and for taking juice for 1.5 years straight thats just fucking retatrded i know a couple guys who have gone a year straight and they are fucking fat ass shit, just plain stupid.

[kevin3987]

thanks guys well i think my training is fine the hard thing is the diet part i try to get in the most cals possible but its hard i guess a weight gainer would be good and a good diet to go along with it.now i learned without diet i aint got shit so next time i will most def fix that part and have a more agressive pct to go along with it...im going back up im at 168 but im sure its water im going to add creatine and glutamine and im on estrodex, not sure if its any goos but worth a try.and for taking juice for 1.5 years straight thats just fucking retatrded i know a couple guys who have gone a year straight and they are fucking fat ass shit, just plain stupid.
if u want it u will acheive it set ur mind, dont ride the roller coaster if u cant watch the view.

[juced_porkchop]

thanks guys well i think my training is fine the hard thing is the diet part i try to get in the most cals possible but its hard i guess a weight gainer would be good and a good diet to go along with it.now i learned without diet i aint got shit so next time i will most def fix that part and have a more agressive pct to go along with it...im going back up im at 168 but im sure its water im going to add creatine and glutamine and im on estrodex, not sure if its any goos but worth a try.and for taking juice for 1.5 years straight thats just fucking retatrded i know a couple guys who have gone a year straight and they are fucking fat ass shit, just plain stupid.

ya man i mean it not like he cuises on a hrt dose just stays on sometimes miss's shots a few times he told me. i warn him he say i know i know dont wry. in my head im like FINE w/e. guys older then me too. age dont mean shit sometimes..

in my sig there a site i use truprotien and if you go to custom mix u can make youown mixe of carbs fats protien i use it and love it id rec somthing like
(20%casinate, 40% iso whey or gamma/rice)protien=60%, (15%oatpowder,5%dextro,5%malt,5% waxymaze)carbs=30%, (10%flaxseed powder)"10%fat", i used somthing like that my last bulker. also look at fishoilpills i take 4-6 aday. vary good stuff. maybe it will help it in extra cals amd wont be 75%sugar liek u will get with most weaght gainers as there mostly shit.

[VTliftVT]

you need to eat more whole food. fuck the weight gainers unless you have a job or something that would prevent you from being able to eat with a fork or something. i cook a whole tray of chicken breasts and a big ass flank steak 2-3 times per week. I work in a nice office and we are always busy. I WILL however eat a whole food meal every 3 hours. it takes NOTHING to do this. Even when i am traveling i will take a napkin and eat a chicken breast or steak driving down the road. When I am flying I will do the same, fuck that fat ass beside me giving me the weird looks in my suit with a steak in my hand. Its NOT HARD to eat! You HAVE to realize this game isn't cheap and does take will power and effort. If you really want this, you will do it. You have an amazing base and your pics/genetics look great. You could certainly be a beast. your so damn lean right now that there is NO reason not to eat more. Start at 4000 cals. Watch your weight and see how your body responds. Move the cals up 500 every 4-5 days if your not putting on weight (id prolly wait a week). Keep kicking them up until you can tell your putting on a little bit of chub and either keep it there or back it down a few hundred cals. If your going to do this, do it right.

Use weight gainers as a last resort or something to have on hand when you dont have time.

[juced_porkchop]

you need to eat more whole food. fuck the weight gainers unless you have a job or something that would prevent you from being able to eat with a fork or something. i cook a whole tray of chicken breasts and a big ass flank steak 2-3 times per week. I work in a nice office and we are always busy. I WILL however eat a whole food meal every 3 hours. it takes NOTHING to do this. Even when i am traveling i will take a napkin and eat a chicken breast or steak driving down the road. When I am flying I will do the same, fuck that fat ass beside me giving me the weird looks in my suit with a steak in my hand. Its NOT HARD to eat! You HAVE to realize this game isn't cheap and does take will power and effort. If you really want this, you will do it. You have an amazing base and your pics/genetics look great. You could certainly be a beast. your so damn lean right now that there is NO reason not to eat more. Start at 4000 cals. Watch your weight and see how your body responds. Move the cals up 500 every 4-5 days if your not putting on weight (id prolly wait a week). Keep kicking them up until you can tell your putting on a little bit of chub and either keep it there or back it down a few hundred cals. If your going to do this, do it right.

Use weight gainers as a last resort or something to have on hand when you dont have time.

i agree about whole foods but me i don't eat ANY meat or fish "cept fishoil caps" so i use it to get most of my protein and im doing GREAT. im agenst eating meat. but to each his own. throw in 2 or 3 shakes a day with 4 meals its a breez. do like VT cook a bunch for then next few days, grab n go. .. for me only somany beans u can eat till every 1 hate u lol jks

i think shakes are great but u need to eat too i eat every few hrs pluse the shakes for extra protien.

you can do it but it takes passion to put in to it. atleast i feel it dos:D

[iamgreat187]

thanks i do wanna be a beast.lol.im going to boost my cal intake for sure as well as protien...im going natrual for a while until i get my diet right and gain 10-15 pounds natrally then i think ill be ready for my next cycle, whenever that may be..im just going to go out and buy a bunch of ground beef and chicken prolly some shakes as well since im always traveling as well out of twon, but thanks guys for the responces and help.

[Jeffdev69]

the kind of weight you gained is like what you can get from anadrol alone. My conclusion is that you did not eat right. You look like a picky eater I think you should get some BCAA's and eat within a half hour of you working out. Try spiking your your insluin after a work out also that will bulk you up if your putting the right stuff in you.

[VTliftVT]

i agree about whole foods but me i don't eat ANY meat or fish "cept fishoil caps" so i use it to get most of my protein and im doing GREAT. im agenst eating meat. but to each his own. throw in 2 or 3 shakes a day with 4 meals its a breez. do like VT cook a bunch for then next few days, grab n go. .. for me only somany beans u can eat till every 1 hate u lol jks

i think shakes are great but u need to eat too i eat every few hrs pluse the shakes for extra protien.

you can do it but it takes passion to put in to it. atleast i feel it dos:D

I have heard LBA's (liquid beef aminos) are great as well. Many people over at pro-m are getting ALL of their proteins from LBA's....might have to try them and substitute for a meal or two.

[musclemd]

yes, clomid is really what gets your natty test going, you want natural test right!?!?!?!?!

you HAVE to eat more! you need to be eating just as big if not bigger than you were on your cycle. you still dont listen to anyone and you obviously had no idea what you were doing. your pics look good, you have a great base, you just need to learn the basics first. the majority of what you lost was water, thats no doubt. but your pct sucked and you were really only blocking estrogen and not getting your natty test back up which means you probably did lose some muscle.

Bump this.
Clomid and Nolvadex all the way in pct.

[iamgreat187]

from pro-m is that a web site?im going to in to get in on that

[VTliftVT]

from pro-m is that a web site?im going to in to get in on that

yea, many people on here are members there...BigA and Tyrone to name a few.

www.professionalmuscle.com/forums

some great info on there too.

[iamgreat187]

sweet i will check that out also need to check that site where you can make you own i guess protien formulas like with casein and all different types that sounds good to.

[Siegfried]

dud check the mirror......do you think you look more lean than at the end of your cycle???? yep you lost water, you look in fact better than at the end of your cycle, that was my experience at my frist cycle, I lost weigth, but didn't lost strength, and I also looked more lean

[juced_porkchop]

sweet i will check that out also need to check that site where you can make you own i guess protien formulas like with casein and all different types that sounds good to.

look at my sig below

use discount and checkcustom mix option to mix up your own

[iamgreat187]

yup i was referring to that very site prochop you had mentioned it before...my body does look better than when i started and i lost a little strength but that is to be expected, im just natuarlly a very lean person.

[TopGun1051]

my training is fine i know its my diet i guess i need to get it down before my next cycle...i try and keep my cals at 3000 and my protien high but its not consistent so i know i fucked up.

Dude go to http://www.fitday.com and look at this program, you input everything you eat and it manages all your micronutrients; just check it out maybe you need some help keeping your diet in check, maybe someone knows a better piece of software but I LOVE this one.

[iamgreat187]

i went to that site but i couldnt put in eggs alone stuff comes up like eggs and potatoes, pancakes and eggs, ect....is there a trick to it?

[iamgreat187]

fired eggs??yea they where whole eggs, ill keep trying man

[TopGun1051]

i went to that site but i couldnt put in eggs alone stuff comes up like eggs and potatoes, pancakes and eggs, ect....is there a trick to it?

If your replying to me, I downloaded the program and installed it for $40 bucks and it's awesome. If figure everything out for you. If it doesn't have a food you just read the label and input the info in manually.

[iamgreat187]

If your replying to me, I downloaded the program and installed it for $40 bucks and it's awesome. If figure everything out for you. If it doesn't have a food you just read the label and input the info in manually.


sweet that is most def worth it.its a lot harder to write it down or remember it by memory...what a genius invention

[Ed17447]

another reason you lost gains is you didn't use clomid. A delay in your natural test coming back and poor eating habits will do it every time.

[iamgreat187]

yea im pretty sure thats why my first cycle which im not sure youd call a cycle was eq only for 12 or 13 weeks and i used nolva and clomid and kept all my gains which was nice i might try that again with a low dose of test like 250 and hopefully keep all my gains...it sucks i grew pretty big and lost it people def noitced.