androgen receptor saturation

[anhuka]

so i have been reading doing reaserch and cant get a clear on that too mutch opinions , some say it´s a myth some say it becames saturated... does anyone get anyone study on it?

i dont make mutch sense if the AR becames saturated how there are peaple on TRT for years without saturation?

but i would love to see a study on it

[Ed17447]

The way I look at it, if your on a certain ester for a long period of time, your body becomes used to that ester and you won't see the gains from that ester as much. I like to switch esters every cycle, it keeps the body guessing. I find I get better gains not using the same ester over and over in a row. There's many opinions on this, this is only my opinion.

And the only way for your receptors to become clean, is time off. Again only my opinion.

[kevin3987]

when I am off I take grape seed extract & dandilion root, helps clean the receptors, imo

[tpd01883]

The esters have little to do with the binding to the receptor Ed. I've stated this before but I guess you missed it. As far as your body becoming used to the ester, that is possible. If anything It would become more efficient at removing the ester from the drug base and releasing the drug into its free form.

The drug is not in an active form as long as it is attatched to the ester. It must be removed before the drug becomes active and available to bind to the androgen receptor, or undergo any conversions via aromatase or 5AR.




To the op-

As far as saturation, what do you mean?

To me "Saturation" would imply that the receptors become occupied and do not allow for other substances to bind there. This does not happen long term. One molecule can occupy a receptor and block others from binding there, but this is only temporary. Androgens can block other stronger androgens from binding to the AR, sort of like tamoxifene blocks estradiol from the estrogen receptor. After a molecule departs from the receptor it can either be broken down into one of its metabolites or if it is lucky, bind to another receptor.

Can the receptors become desensitized? Yes. Over stimulation of any hormonal receptor, or neuronal receptor can cause desensitization, or tolerance to occur.

People on HRT are on roughly a physiological dose of the hormone, not superphysiological dosages like body builders use. Therefore the receptors are not bieng over stimulated.

Is this tolerance permanent? I can't hypothesize that from my understanding of the human body. I would guess somewhat, but not completely. For example when you come off a cycle of test at 500mg and you stopped gaining during the last 3 weeks. This would indicate your tolerance is high. However this does not mean that you will not gain off of 500mg test / week again, just that for the time bieng your body is not responding to it.

However, after repeated use the tolerance to 500mg / week of test may not drop after cycle and you will have to up the dosage. Anecdotal evidence seems to point to this bieng the case.

[jchh]

I dont know if its receptor saturation as much as it receptor downregulation. If a receptor recieves constatnt stimulus from high doses of AAS drugs it will eventually get used to those drugs being there in high quantities which makes the receptors less sensitive to that drug in the future.

The best example I can give is Type II Diabetes.. Over a lifetime of eating high sugar diets and low exercise causing chronic elevation in insulin levels an individual will develop insulin desensitivy or Diabetes II, it now will require more or the hormone to illicit the same effect.

[Ed17447]

The esters have little to do with the binding to the receptor Ed. I've stated this before but I guess you missed it. As far as your body becoming used to the ester, that is possible. If anything It would become more efficient at removing the ester from the drug base and releasing the drug into its free form.

The drug is not in an active form as long as it is attatched to the ester. It must be removed before the drug becomes active and available to bind to the androgen receptor, or undergo any conversions via aromatase or 5AR.




To the op-

As far as saturation, what do you mean?

To me "Saturation" would imply that the receptors become occupied and do not allow for other substances to bind there. This does not happen long term. One molecule can occupy a receptor and block others from binding there, but this is only temporary. Androgens can block other stronger androgens from binding to the AR, sort of like tamoxifene blocks estradiol from the estrogen receptor. After a molecule departs from the receptor it can either be broken down into one of its metabolites or if it is lucky, bind to another receptor.

Can the receptors become desensitized? Yes. Over stimulation of any hormonal receptor, or neuronal receptor can cause desensitization, or tolerance to occur.

People on HRT are on roughly a physiological dose of the hormone, not superphysiological dosages like body builders use. Therefore the receptors are not bieng over stimulated.

Is this tolerance permanent? I can't hypothesize that from my understanding of the human body. I would guess somewhat, but not completely. For example when you come off a cycle of test at 500mg and you stopped gaining during the last 3 weeks. This would indicate your tolerance is high. However this does not mean that you will not gain off of 500mg test / week again, just that for the time bieng your body is not responding to it.

However, after repeated use the tolerance to 500mg / week of test may not drop after cycle and you will have to up the dosage. Anecdotal evidence seems to point to this bieng the case.
And like I've stated before, everyone has different opinions. You have yours and I have mine.

[juced_porkchop]

sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) rasis and over time i assume you have more of it being on all the test so there for less is being used when u lower test "come off" it also lowers/ and thats where i think this mith comes from.

just a thoght.

look up SHBG

[twigman]

Anuka , it looks to me like most are just repeating what they have heard someone else say or have read from a non reliable source.I would also like to see some sort of real double blind studies of this " saturation" idea....because truthfully I have no fucking clue about saturation and It does not seem like anyone else here has a clue.If you find some real proof -please pm me.

[torf]

the receptors are built into every cell correct?

cells die daily and new ones are made daily.

[SwoleTexasKid]

I am fully convinced that your receptors can and will get flooded. I did not gain a single permanent pound after my ten week run of sustanon and the last 3 weeks with tren ace.

My first cycle I blew up nice because the substances were foreign to my body and my body was shocked into growing. I took a 3 1/2 week break before my second cycle, which was 5 months, then I took 2 1/2 months break and rolled into my third, then a month and did my fourth cycle, then six weeks and began my fifth cycle.

The gains from each cycle got less and less until they stopped completely, even eating like a horse and training right did not help. I have decided to take the rest of the year off and just use whey and creatine to make some nice natty gains then give it another whirl.

Your receptors can and will get saturated.

when I am off I take grape seed extract & dandilion root, helps clean the receptors, imo

Does this really work? You think I should give it a try, Kev?

[Machola]

sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) rasis and over time i assume you have more of it being on all the test so there for less is being used when u lower test "come off" it also lowers/ and thats where i think this mith comes from.

that is true. as you supplement large amounts off test and other aas shbg levels will raise making the aas less effective. proviron will help that... but i think there are other reactions happening to down regulate the effect of aas. the down regulation or flooding of receptor theory doesn't make any sense to me and i don't think that is true. a better theory would be if the body made less androgen receptors to compensate large doses of aas. that would make aas less effective over time... whatever it is, something is happening because if i slack on my trt for a month or so and start again i can feel the test strongly. then after a couple weeks back on trt i just feel normal. its called homeostasis. under extreme conditions for extended amounts of time the body will adapt and normalize. think of when winter hits. you're cold as hell because you were used to warm weather but after a month or two you get used to it and 50 degrees seems warm.

[juced_porkchop]

that is true. as you supplement large amounts off test and other aas shbg levels will raise making the aas less effective. proviron will help that... but i think there are other reactions happening to down regulate the effect of aas. the down regulation or flooding of receptor theory doesn't make any sense to me and i don't think that is true. a better theory would be if the body made less androgen receptors to compensate large doses of aas. that would make aas less effective over time... whatever it is, something is happening because if i slack on my trt for a month or so and start again i can feel the test strongly. then after a couple weeks back on trt i just feel normal. its called homeostasis. under extreme conditions for extended amounts of time the body will adapt and normalize. think of when winter hits. you're cold as hell because you were used to warm weather but after a month or two you get used to it and 50 degrees seems warm.


well i partly agree.
I DONOT AGREE WITH THE WINTER THING!!!! i HATE winter and i freez and if it wasnt for this being my bulking time to look foward to id probibly hang myself!.:mad:
fukin winter!
ok no more talk of that its over!!
for a petty 4 months:(

[ironfreak83]

all i know is i've ran a couple 6 month cycles and kept gaining all the way through, so far it's a myth in my eyes. i guess if i ever stop gaining though then ill be singing a different song and dance though lol :D

[kevin3987]

I am fully convinced that your receptors can and will get flooded. I did not gain a single permanent pound after my ten week run of sustanon and the last 3 weeks with tren ace.

My first cycle I blew up nice because the substances were foreign to my body and my body was shocked into growing. I took a 3 1/2 week break before my second cycle, which was 5 months, then I took 2 1/2 months break and rolled into my third, then a month and did my fourth cycle, then six weeks and began my fifth cycle.

The gains from each cycle got less and less until they stopped completely, even eating like a horse and training right did not help. I have decided to take the rest of the year off and just use whey and creatine to make some nice natty gains then give it another whirl.

Your receptors can and will get saturated.



Does this really work? You think I should give it a try, Kev?
Yes it cheap. use them all 2, I will co sighn it, all the guys who sauce around here been it using & just turned me on 2 it 6 7 months ago, cuz I thought I was all clogged up esp on my inject sites!

[anhuka]

on my tought´s we get to remember that it´s no only the AR that´s affected by ass but the all body the all internal organs, and i do think with consekutive amouts of ass the body get´s stressed liver,kidneys etc and dont have the same response to growing instead have a response of trying to normalize... or an regection reaction or something