PCT, HCG Thread

[bobbyrlg]

Would it be possible for Alin to get the 1500 IU bottles of HCG? I like to divide it up into doses of 300 iu's like in Swales protocol, and it's more difficult with the 5000 IU bottle since you can only keep it for 1 month with bacteriostatic water.

[rAJJIN]

Swale... Now thats a name I havnt heard in a while.
only 300? is that ed or eod? If you wouldnt mind can you share more On swales method? I knew he advised Low doses But I was thinking it was 500iu..

[bobbyrlg]

Sure, here is Swale's PCT protocol. He is a doctor (HRT specialist):

"I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge�. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool� the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols."

I like to use 300IU twice a week, and it's easy to divide up from a 1500IU bottle.

[rAJJIN]

Great information right there from an hrt Expert!
Thanks for posting that for us.

[medivac_driver]

Swale's hcg/pct protocol should be a sticky over at the PCT forum. Great info.

[kimskid]

Nice info... made me a wiser man :)

[OuchThatHurts]

Great information right there from an hrt Expert!
Thanks for posting that for us.
It is soooo effective too! Take it from someone who has been using it for a long time. I don't do the 200iu throughout but I'll do a month in the middle and a month at the end. That way, going into PCT, everything is all nice a ready to get moving again. I hope people at least try this. I never get much shrinkage but I do notice a small difference which this just totally and completely eliminates.

[sTaTic]

nice post fellas

[Alin]

Sure, here is Swale's PCT protocol. He is a doctor (HRT specialist):

"I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge�. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool� the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols."

I like to use 300IU twice a week, and it's easy to divide up from a 1500IU bottle.


Great theory and many speak highly of this method.

[medivac_driver]

i remember a while back seeing a post someone submitted with what PCT to use with what AAS and when to use it. anyone else remember this? that really should be a sticky.

[jstforme]

as far as anti estrogens go, yeah some are better suited with certain gear than others, but pct is going to be pretty much the same across the board...only thing that would change is when to start which depends on the ester used

[sTaTic]

This was posted before:

PCT Start Times

Below you'll find starting times for your PCT based on the active life of each compound. The active life is the duration of time it takes for the exogenous hormone to be absorbed, utilized, and expelled; no longer being bioavailable. Keep in mind that active life is an approximation which is dependant on dose, ester, as well as the individuals metabolization of the compound ; but for the moderate user, these are as close to precise as you'll find.

Anadrol/Anapolan: 24 hours after last administration
Deca: 21 days after last injection
Dianabol: 24 hours after last administration
Equipoise: 21 days after last injection
Fina: 3 days after last injection
Primobolan depot: 14 days after last injection
Sustanon: 18 days after last injection
Testosterone Cypionate: 18 days after last injection
Testosterone Enanthate: 14 days after last injection
Testosterone Propionate: 3 days after last injection
Testosterone Suspension: 24 hours after last administration
Winstrol: 24 hours after last administration

[medivac_driver]

thanks man. this is exactly what i was looking for.
peace.:cool:

[sTaTic]

Anytime brutha... glad I could help

[BruceMan77777]

hey does alins pregnile hcg for 25$ come with 3 sets (6vials like in the pic) or just one (2viles)?

[OLYMPIAN]

Actually I dont use any HCG,CLOMID NOR NOLVA....I taper my Test and Adex.

[sTaTic]

Actually I dont use any HCG,CLOMID NOR NOLVA....I taper my Test and Adex.


This is not advisable

[OLYMPIAN]

hey bro..im just commenting on what I do..this is what works for me..I think I have the right to do so,dont I ?

And why this aint advisable if u care to explain? The experience that I've ( personally) had with thse drugs is that they only work while you're using them once u stop you're even more supressed.

[sTaTic]

hey bro..im just commenting on what I do..this is what works for me..I think I have the right to do so,dont I ?


You sure do but I would say 95% of the people on gear wont respond the way you do. I know everyone is different, trust me... I'm very different then most when it comes to deca but you should state that it isn't what everyone should follow. That's all. I wasn't taking a dig at ya ;)

[LeanMass17]

hey does alins pregnile hcg for 25$ come with 3 sets (6vials like in the pic) or just one (2viles)?

It comes with two vials, 1ml of sterile water and then another with 5,000IUs of HCG

[ranger235]

howdy buds - I typically use HCG @ 500iu every 5 days. Works great for me anyways - and the boys stay happy :D

As far as the 5000iu amps go, what I've been doin is buy a package of 10 - 29ga. @ 1ml slin syringes. I'll mix it up and pull it into one of them to start with. I then pull the plunger out of another dart and carefully inject 0.1ml into the back end. I replace the plunger, tapping the side to remove all the air. I'll do this with another 8 needles, leaving 0.1ml in the original for a total of 10 loaded doses. I then toss them in a ziploc bag and store em next to the party ice in the freezer.

When it's time for a dose I pull one out, warm it in my hand, crack the orange needle cover off and shoot. Little bit a work up front but I like havin it reday to go when its HCG day ;)

[bobbyrlg]

You know the stealth injectables gave me an idea with preparing the HCG. For my next cycle I'm going to get a sterile vial. I'll add 1ml of bacteriostatic water to a 5,000 IU amp of HCG then transfer it to the sterile vial. Then I'll add 4 more ml of bacteriostatic water to the sterile vial and put it in the fridge. Then I can just draw out .5ml twice a week giving me 500iu's for each injection.

[1darkstar]

That sounds great bobby. Have you been doing that now. Any other guys using hcg like that?

[mallred11]

Any recommendations where to get bacteriostatic water & sterile vials? Thanks.

[kjoshv]

alrite, hey ive got 5 2,000 iu amps of HCG and a 10 ml vial of bacteriostatic water. So how would i be able to use this? pull out 2 ml out of the vial @ a time and mix the water with 1 amp and put it back in the vial, mix it all? shoot .5 ml every 5 days, and store it in a zip lock bag in tthe freezer,..?
as you can see this is the first time i'm using HCG. just trying to get edumacated.

[Tom_624]

My experience is that you should have two amps, one with powder and one with liquid. Before you begin you will need a vial of bacteriostatic water, a sterile empty vial, one syringe with needle and one separate needle.

Snap the necks of the two amps, draw up the liquid from the liquid one and add it to the amp with powder in it. This should create one cc of concentrated HCG and it should mix instantaneously, looking totally clear again. It's pretty weird that it saturates so well but don't be surprised.

Then draw up the mixture into your syringe, cap it and put it aside for a minute. Take the sterile vial and stick the other needle you have into the rubber seal. This serves as a vent so air pressure won't build up and not allow the liquid to be injected into the vial.

Grab the syringe again, put it into the top of the rubber seal (leave the other needle in there too of course) and push the liquid into the sterile vial.

Leave the free needle in there, remove the syringe, draw up 3 ccs of bact water from your bact water vial and add those 3 ccs to the solution vial. Do this two more times. This will mean that you added 9 ccs of bact water and 1 cc of the concentrated solution for a total of 10 cc.

This creates 5000 ius of HCG. Inject 500 ius (1 cc) every 5 days. This mixture must be refridgerated.

Of course this is all opinion so it is subjective and many other people will have many other opinions...especially on the dosing.

Bacteriostatic water can be gotten at one of Alin's board sponsors. I believe this is ok to post but if not, mods please remove and accept my apologies. http://gpzservices.easystorecreator....water/list.htm

The injection part really differs by opinion but in my experience some people prefer using a 29g insulin needle and injecting subcutaneous. I prefer using a 23g 1" and injecting intramuscular, going in about half an inch to three quarters of an inch into my thigh.

Hope that helps.

[steak]

the one PCT that worked for me is:

1. depending on the life time of the testosterone used inthe cycle
2.e.g. last shot was 500mg of testosterone
3. two weeks after the shot 1500i.u. of HCG on Monday,500mg of Sustanon on Wednesday ( YES, you read Sustanon)
4.repeat the previous week
5. On third week only HCG and start Clenbuterol work up to 60-80mcg/day then two on two off ( use Clenbuterol for max. 4 weeks). Also start Creatine
5g and Glutamine 5-10 g in post- workout shake.
6. Eat high protein diet and eat clean for 5-6 days in a week, Let`s say from Monday to Saturday afternoon.
7. Train 4-5 times a week depending on the recovery. Train with less volume

So it works for me, What`s your opinion?:confused:

[cjack62]

[QUOTE=ranger235;45137]howdy buds - I typically use HCG @ 500iu every 5 days. Works great for me anyways - and the boys stay happy :D

this is what I did....I couldn't even fathom what it would be like to shoot 250iu everyday. As it was at 500 iu every 5 days...my dick was soooo hard I could have used it to chip cement...almost painful in the middle of the night...good thing I have a horny wife.

[agentofgod]

Would it be possible for Alin to get the 1500 IU bottles of HCG? I like to divide it up into doses of 300 iu's like in Swales protocol, and it's more difficult with the 5000 IU bottle since you can only keep it for 1 month with bacteriostatic water. you can only keep it for 1 month? i bout 3 to use at the end of my cycle befor i start pct .. r u saying it will go bad befor then?? :eek:

[agentofgod]

bought :D

[lunny]

bought :D

?????????:confused::confused::confused::confused:: confused:

[steak]

?????????:confused::confused::confused::confused:: confused:

i think he agrees with the opinions

[agentofgod]

?????????:confused::confused::confused::confused:: confused:
read the post befor it i put bout.. ooops

[lunny]

read the post befor it i put bout.. ooops

Got ya bout!!!

[hdnixon]

No - the HCG is okay until you mix it with solution. From that point onwards it only has a 30 day life if refrigerated

[cpesloco]

This cycle was the first time I used HCG. I never had an issue with the boys before but I guess now that I am getting older things change. So after 2 weeks into my cycle the boys are not hanging like normal. I started HCG 250iu Tues and Thurs going forward. within 1 week the boys are back to there old status. Will continue to run through out the cycle and will have it planned on all future cycles.
A+ shit.