question about sust. and winny

[allside02]

part of my cycle is Sustanon 500mg/week and Winny 50mg/day. what are the best days to inject Sust. ? Mon., then Fri., or Mon., then Thurs.

also, does it matter what time of day i do it?
and, when i add in the winny can i take it at the same time i inject or at different times? thanks.

[tbomb]

what's the rest of the cycle? i'm about to do one similar...

i'd do monday and thursday 'cause sust has a relatively short halflife. I think??

if you take the sust about two hours before you workout the testosterone in your body will peak by the time you workout and you'll have a kickass workout. but other than that, not really, you should try to keep the time of day fairly consistant though.

I mixed winny and test-c in my last cycle with nooo problem. sometimes the winny gives me a little trouble cause i use fairly small darts, but mixin' won't do a thing, you just don't have to stick yourself as many times. :)

good luck.

[allside02]

sorry for mess up, i am taking winny tabs, not injectables, so i was wondering if i could inject sust. and then take the winny tab right away or if i had to wait a while.

[tbomb]

yeah, it won't matter, take the winny at the same time you inject. or....

depending on how much you take, some people split the oral dosage into two doses, like, the first half of your dose the when you wake up and then the second half before you train, just to maintain a constant, prime anabolic state.

so you could do 25mg when you wake up and 25 before you train / inject... or you could just take all 50 at once, i haven't actually done oral winny, but i split my dosages with dianabol and noticed significant gains with the split dosage.

tbomb

[allside02]

i have to move my workouts to like 5:30am, so there is no way for me to inject before i workout. if i was planning on injecting Mon. and Thurs, could i possibly inject and take the winny tabs on Sunday and Wednesday night, since i will be working out so early in the morning? thanks.

[Kaiser]

Well fellas, it is really hard to get a go "flow" with Sustanon. It was originally made for doctors to administer once every month or so. The esters listed below are half lifes. you can see where it falls short on a couple of days. A PHD friend of mine did some studying and some experimentation (on himself) with Sustanon to try and figure out the best time to do an injection and keep it stable. He rounded it out that after blood work, his levels were more even shooting every other day, OR every 8th day. Otherwise he showed a siginificant drop on certain days when shot Mon & Thur or Mon & Fri. You can consider this, or you can continue shooting the way you are, but I noticed a significant difference shooting every other day like he recommended, rather than 2 times a week. Yes, you would lighten the shot up, and use the same amount per week.

propionate 30mg (2 days)
phenylpropionate 30mg (4 days)
isocaproate 60mg (9 days)
decanoate 100mg (15 days)

[sTaTic]

Well fellas, it is really hard to get a go "flow" with Sustanon. It was originally made for doctors to administer once every month or so. The esters listed below are half lifes. you can see where it falls short on a couple of days. A PHD friend of mine did some studying and some experimentation (on himself) with Sustanon to try and figure out the best time to do an injection and keep it stable. He rounded it out that after blood work, his levels were more even shooting every other day, OR every 8th day. Otherwise he showed a siginificant drop on certain days when shot Mon & Thur or Mon & Fri. You can consider this, or you can continue shooting the way you are, but I noticed a significant difference shooting every other day like he recommended, rather than 2 times a week. Yes, you would lighten the shot up, and use the same amount per week.

propionate 30mg (2 days)
phenylpropionate 30mg (4 days)
isocaproate 60mg (9 days)
decanoate 100mg (15 days)


nice post bro

[allside02]

so what you are saying Kaiser is to shoot 125mg on Mon,Wed,Fri, and Sun?

since i am a first time injecter, 1cc=250mgs correct, so what would equal 125mg? sorry if this is a dumb question.

[sTaTic]

so what you are saying Kaiser is to shoot 125mg on Mon,Wed,Fri, and Sun?

since i am a first time injecter, 1cc=250mgs correct, so what would equal 125mg? sorry if this is a dumb question.


exactly... you would shoot 1/2 cc each time

[anaholic]

i do my shots when i get out of the shower, the never ending arguement-when to shoot sust

[sTaTic]

i do my shots when i get out of the shower, the never ending arguement-when to shoot sust


aint that the truth ;)

[Kaiser]

nice post bro

Thanks man, but the real work came from my PHD friend over at professionalmuscle (OuchThatHurts). He did the ginny pigging so to speak and he is very logical and thorough in his theories/findings. I'm just the messenger on this one, because you know me, I dont take credit when I didn't do the work. I'll ask him if I can post the full writeup he has, maybe it will help some fellas out.

[CHRIS1]

EOD is the best I have found with sustonon. Take less like static said.. I even found the same thing with tren Acethat shooting less everyday instead of a bigger shot eod worked better for me.

[moseslok]

I've done Sus250 on Mon and Thurs before and it seems to work for me. I know some people swear on shooting it EOD. If you are doing a long cycle (12-16weeks), u can try both ways at different times of your cycle to see the effect and decide which works betterfor you so that you'll know what to do for your next cycle.

As for the winny tabs, u can take the tabs once in the morning or spilting the tabs into 2 dose. Both have similar effects for me. If your body fat is high, its hard to see the effects of winny until u get a little lean (abt 12% bf and lower).

Most imptly, try and error and decide for yourself which suits you best and listen to what the other board members have to say.. Most of these members have been using AAS for a long time and have much valuable experience to share.

Cheers..

[Kaiser]

I've done Sus250 on Mon and Thurs before and it seems to work for me.

Not for argument sake, but did you have your levels check consistently via bloodwork to know that it actually did work as well as it should?

Also, the other thing about Sust is that it is a larger molecule than singel esters which means that some of it drops off and you end up with less test in your system. Just like you will end up with more *active* testosterone with TestP as apposed to TestE shot for shot because TestE is a larger/heavier molecule. As stated earlier, my friend the PHD explained all of this to me. I cant take credit for it, I am just spreading the tested knowledge.

[bigbigb]

hey sust has the longes half life of any of the tests that why sust would be a better test replacement than any other except sust is not recomended by the ama. sust can be injected as far as ten days apart with good test levels. Sounds like you need to do a lot of reading before this cycle. if anything inject every 5 days nothing sooner and break it in half of a ten day dose cause if you don't you will have lots of estrogen sides at six weeks and also you will give your liver a bigger break. This is from my medical back ground also my own experience.

[Kaiser]

hey sust has the longes half life of any of the tests that why sust would be a better test replacement than any other except sust is not recomended by the ama. sust can be injected as far as ten days apart with good test levels. Sounds like you need to do a lot of reading before this cycle. if anything inject every 5 days nothing sooner and break it in half of a ten day dose cause if you don't you will have lots of estrogen sides at six weeks and also you will give your liver a bigger break. This is from my medical back ground also my own experience.


Not as easy as it is put out to be. I does have the longest half life FOR IT'S BACK END. But it is a culmination of a 3 other Esters (preservatives, time to live) that make it ustable for a body builder. It was made for a doctor to administer 1 time a month. You will find more info in this thread and in many others I have written about the subject. Stick with TestE unless you know what you are doing, and usually when you know what you are doing, you'll stick with TestE. No lose situation with TestE.

[OuchThatHurts]

hey sust has the longes half life of any of the tests that why sust would be a better test replacement than any other except sust is not recomended by the ama. sust can be injected as far as ten days apart with good test levels. Sounds like you need to do a lot of reading before this cycle. if anything inject every 5 days nothing sooner and break it in half of a ten day dose cause if you don't you will have lots of estrogen sides at six weeks and also you will give your liver a bigger break. This is from my medical back ground also my own experience.
an injectable form of test like sust will not cause any unusual strain on your liver and as the following article demonstrates, you can achieve stable levels if you know what you are doing. But why aggravate yourself? Why not just make it easy for yourself with a single ester? test is test. As far as estrogen-related sides, these can and will occur with all forms of aromatizing steroids and can easily be treated per common protocols (nolva, a-dex, etc.) Personally, I like a-dex.

[OuchThatHurts]

Abstract: Sustanon And It’s Use
By OuchThatHurts

Sustanon. Every BBer in the world knows the name. Every “noob� has to try it. But is it a good choice for BBers? Not really. Unless you know what you’re doing and even then you would likely have better and more stable results with less expensive and easier to maintain compounds. Let’s take a look at Sustanon.

Sustanon was originally designed and formulated by Organon as a timed-release compound used for androgen replacement for hypogonadic males, HRT, and all the other uses where androgens are indicated. The difference being that Sustanon (sustained release) was designed to be administered once per month. By combining multiple esters in such a way, starting with shorter chain molecules (propionate) and progressing to longer ones (decanoate), you can design a formula that takes effect almost immediately and releases it’s payload (testosterone) over a length of time.

So let’s look at the esters in Sustanon. Would anyone consider stacking two forms of esterified test in a single cycle? For example, would you combine propionate and enanthate? If so, how would you do it? Would you take 30mg or propionate every other day or twice a week along with 100mg of enanthate at the same time? Of course not! Well not only are you doing that with sust, but with FOUR esters, not just two. Testosterone is testosterone whether your body cleaves it from a short molecule or a long molecule. Many people still think that these different esters of the same organic compound are somehow different or “synergistic�. That’s almost like saying the caffeine in coffee is different than the caffeine in Pepsi. And if you stack coffee and Pepsi you’ll have a more pronounced effect or synergistic effect. There IS a difference but in only one regard and that is that you will get MORE raw test mg/mg with shorter esters than longer ones. The reason for this is simple. The larger the molecule, the more carbons are added which increases the total weight of the molecule. In short, more of the molecule’s weight is taken up by carbon and not testosterone. The additional carbon and occasionally oxygen atoms also increase the compound’s solubility and half-life but that is beyond this article. So what esters are we dealing with in Sustanon?

propionate 30mg (2 days)
phenylpropionate 30mg (4 days)
isocaproate 60mg (9 days)
decanoate 100mg (15 days)

In parenthesis, you see their approximate half lives. It is no coincidence that each ester is roughly twice the quantity of the one before it nor is it coincidental that each half life is approx. double the length of the one before it. Still beyond this article. Moving on…

I decided to experiment with Sustanon after receiving a fairly large quantity. Even though I had plenty, I was still thinking greedily and wanted to get the most out of my testosterone dollar. I started with the twice-a-week approach. A month later, I had no gains, a bad flu, and had used almost 20 amps (1ml) at 250mg/ml. I wanted to know what had gone wrong. It didn’t take long to figure out. During the first week, all that had taken effect was the prop and phenylprop. And 120mg total (out of 500mg) is all that my system saw. That’s about enough to suppress the axis but that’s it. Throw two amps in the trash. The second week, probably not much different and had used 4 amps (1000mg). By the third week I had the flu. Not exactly a surprise with all the HPTA suppression and unstable test levels. Most people have heard of the “sust flu�? Well, there you go. I was beginning to plan a PCT regimen when it dawned on me… I’m not getting enough STABLE, high levels of testosterone! So not long after that I moved everything to the all to common every-other-day (EOD) approach. Don’t get me wrong, I started noticing results but then again, who wouldn’t? This is a shotgun approach! If you had propionate and enanthate would you just keep dosing until something worked? No. You wouldn’t. The idea there is to just keep shooting the stuff and “one of them esters� will eventually work. Personally, I don’t like this approach. I think we can do much better. After all, don’t we owe it to Organon to abuse their product properly? SO… how well did it work? I’d have 3 good days, followed by 3 bad days. I was emotional. I wanted to sleep all the time. I had a runny nose. Two different blood tests during this time proved that I had almost twice the free test in my system as the blood test a week later. By this point, my great buy was turning into a great waste. I took 2 months off, did a fairly aggressive PCT and started planning my next cycle.

Here is where it seemed to all come together. I decided to try taking Sustanon as Organon intended, but in BBer amounts. This meant using it less frequently but using larger doses. Using it as a SUSTained-release product. Again, being greedy like I am, I didn’t want to waste the propionate in the Sust so I scheduled the entire cycle dosage amounts based on what I would take if I was doing a propionate-only cycle. This meant 4 amps or 1000mgs. That gave me a starting dose of 120mg propionate (30mg x 4) and instead of taking the next dose of propionate, I knew I could just relax knowing that as the propionate fell off, the phenylpropionate would begin and as the phenylpropionate fell off, the isocaproate would begin, etc, etc. This worked phenomenal and I began the cycle figuring on every two weeks (one decanoate half life). In reality, I played with this until I found a sweet spot of 8 days (approx. half of a half life). This gave me testosterone levels that remained stable throughout the cycle and at levels that were good for the results I wanted. You may need to adjust this time period to suit your physiology.

Conclusion: If I were to ever use Sustanon in a cycle again, which I doubt since there are less expensive, more stable compounds available, I would use it as intended in BBer amounts. I would do 1000-1500mg once every 8 days. This would allow for it to take immediate effect and with a few additional amps of propionate, you could use it with predictable stability right up until a few days before starting PCT. This dosing regimen, in my opinion, combined with equipoise or nandrolone would be a very productive cycle. Given the choice, I would still stick with enanthate. The injections are usually painless, the stability is high, the half life is fairly long. If you don’t mind EOD injects then prop or phenylprop would also be better choices than Sustanon in my opinion. Especially phenylprop. You would likely have to compound this yourself though as I haven’t seen this ester alone very often except in the case of nandrolone phenylprop (fast-acting deca).

Refs: any Sustanon package insert

[Beetlejuice]

Bump ouch on this. It makes perfect sense and I have to say it is what I have been trying to tell people all along.

[Tyrone]

Yeah good stuff ouch! I have friends that want to get sust and I tell them to go for the single ester (enanthate). They just don't know enough and now I can tell them what to read first. They just all have the same idea about sust though(4 diff tests is better).

[OuchThatHurts]

Yeah good stuff ouch! I have friends that want to get sust and I tell them to go for the single ester (enanthate). They just don't know enough and now I can tell them what to read first. They just all have the same idea about sust though(4 diff tests is better).
I hear the same thing all the time but there are so many problems with that logic. They think "Wow! I can stack 4 different tests with one shot!" - the problem is there aren't "different tests" - there's only one testosterone... many different esters but just one test...

one article by Dan Duchain and all this... crazy

[utstacked]

Your ass would be sore if you shot it 4 times a week! :rolleyes: I am new to this but I pay hugh amounts of $ to my trainer that also shops from alin, he has always had great success with doing it, wensday morning and saturday night. That way it is real close to 3.5 days. just my 2 cents.

[sTaTic]

being soar is just part of the game ;)

[Kaiser]

Your ass would be sore if you shot it 4 times a week! :rolleyes: I am new to this but I pay hugh amounts of $ to my trainer that also shops from alin, he has always had great success with doing it, wensday morning and saturday night. That way it is real close to 3.5 days. just my 2 cents.

I don't think you understand the thread correctly.

[tbomb]

yeah...

[utstacked]

hey heck of a comment tbomb! Thanks for your input.

[Tyrone]

hey heck of a comment tbomb! Thanks for your input.
I had to bite my tongue on that one. (Many Times) Now I will unleash. J/K It was a funny thing every time I read it... yeah... :D

[bod1ggity]

Well fellas, it is really hard to get a go "flow" with Sustanon. It was originally made for doctors to administer once every month or so. The esters listed below are half lifes. you can see where it falls short on a couple of days. A PHD friend of mine did some studying and some experimentation (on himself) with Sustanon to try and figure out the best time to do an injection and keep it stable. He rounded it out that after blood work, his levels were more even shooting every other day, OR every 8th day. Otherwise he showed a siginificant drop on certain days when shot Mon & Thur or Mon & Fri. You can consider this, or you can continue shooting the way you are, but I noticed a significant difference shooting every other day like he recommended, rather than 2 times a week. Yes, you would lighten the shot up, and use the same amount per week.

propionate 30mg (2 days)
phenylpropionate 30mg (4 days)
isocaproate 60mg (9 days)
decanoate 100mg (15 days)
Excellent post... but ill say what ive always said... ill stick with single ester test... that way im not worrying about unsteady levels.