Anabolic / Androgen Ratio's - A show of educated Opinions Here

[mccollumstacy]

I am starting this thread for the purpose of hopefully becoming more educated on the subject of Anabolic & Androgen Ratio's. For years it has been believed that when designing a cycle, one must keep his Test (Androgen) levels higher than his combined Anabolic portions. I have recently read contradicting opinions to this belief. I am now in search of support / research done to debunk the long carried myth. I very recently began the bulking portion of a cycle and altered it in the very begginning due to opinions given by a couple members of this board. As I had always done, I set the Test at a much higher portion than the accompanying anabolic compounds. After a little consult with you board members, I reversed this style of design to run EQ at 600 wk, Deca 400 wk, and the Test at 450. I did this out of pure curiosity to what I may have been missing out on for years. Well - here it is fellows - this is where you need to dump the wealth of knowledge for the rest of us contemplate. Thanks and please post all opinions.

[FordTurboDiesel]

I think the only reason people are running test levels higher than anabolics is to keep some sort of balance between the 2. Talk of things like Deca dick comes to mind.

[The BB Monad]

I think most guys up the test so the bedroom workouts don't drop - excuse the pun! :D

[Krom]

I think most guys up the test so the bedroom workouts don't drop - excuse the pun! :D

I know guys that run less test than anabolics and they have no problems getting it up.

For some people they get leaner better quality gains with more anabolics. Me and the guys I know noticed that guys in our gyms that were using big doses of test (I think they were using only test) were gaining but looked crappy. Think these other steroids were designed to minimize the sides of testosterone.

I'm about to do a cutting cycle with Mast E 300 and Test E 250 EW with some winstrol during the last few weeks.

[schutzhundk9]

I agree with the bulk of your cycle being comprised of highly anabolic steroids. I also never go above test in the 500mg/wk range.

I think Krom is right on with his comment that steroids were designed to give you the benefits of test without the side effects.

[Krom]

This is interesting. The recommended dose of winstol for a 1000lb horse is only 250mg a week. Equipoise is anywhere from 130mg to 500mg a week. Thats for a 1000lb horse! For cattle the highest potency SQ ear implant has 200mg of tren ace in it. I think the cattle only get one at a time. I don't know how often the get implanted.

Maybe you don't need that much for a person.

[ironfreak83]

hey bro, you can check out my cycle im runnin here to get an idea of what im doin currently, i'm runnin very low test right now with high amounts of deca and a moderate amount of EQ. i'm gettin awesome results, with no problems with sex drive or any other problems. plus the joints and tendons feel freakin great.

http://www.alinboard.com/showthread.php?t=13530

[ironfreak83]

This is interesting. The recommended dose of winstol for a 1000lb horse is only 250mg a week. Equipoise is anywhere from 130mg to 500mg a week. Thats for a 1000lb horse! For cattle the highest potency SQ ear implant has 200mg in it. I think the cattle only get one at a time. I don't know how often the get implanted.

Maybe you don't need that much for person.

thats crazy if you really stop to think about it lol.

[bod1ggity]

I ran a cycle that was 0mg/test and loved it

I ran tren + eq + winny (inect) + proviron + Halo and it was one of my all time favorite cycles...

If you are running a low test cycle then I highly recommend proviron to combat any sort of libido issues that could arise.

[mccollumstacy]

Keep the ideas / experiences coming fellows. This is real world experience that trumps our stone age beliefs & myths. This has me contenplating my next cycle already and I am only a week into a 15 weeker now.

[ironfreak83]

something else to consider........there's a 75 year old powerlifter at my gym. he was in the guiness book of world records for the oldest man to ever bench 500 pounds(i think someone broke that record recently though) and i've always looked up to him. anyways to make a long story short, he has competed with a lot of powerlifters, and even hung out and got to know a lot of the higher level bodybuilders back in the day. according to what they told him, most of them hated test and preferred higher anabolic compounds such as deca and EQ. and of course d bol like candy.

and bump bod about the proviron. i haven't had any need for it, but i imagine some might, and the problem always could surface i suppose.

[fr8lnr01]

I have taken Deca in the past and have had no issues with erectile dysfunction. I used to post about doing so, but people asked me to stop. Some people, however, experience problems with the smallest amount of anabolics.

[mccollumstacy]

I have always ran test in all cycles - but can honestly say that my greatest lean gains always came with it at 500 and below. I could always stack the test up to ridiculous levels and make some massive strength gains - but I always have alot of unwanted weight that accompanies it.

[FordTurboDiesel]

All I can say so far is...I have run 2 test cycles which both basically shut me down. I gained and lost a little from each.
Greatest benefit was lowered BF....Im not impressed though. Next cycle will be different.

A trainer at my gym has also been very vocal about test being useless to him as well. I guess some of us just don't react to it. I can tell you....off test, I have a better libido.

[Ed17447]

personally I have to use test with everthing, but one of my training partners, who's an IFBB pro uses test with everything during the off season to bulk. when competition time rolls around and its time for him to start dieting, he won't use as much. The closer he gets to contest time he'll only use prop along with the anabolics and he just uses that for spot injections because we all know that prop will swell you up. The more test you use the more water you'll have, especially test and deca combined.

[str8balla]

I ran a cycle that was 0mg/test and loved it

I ran tren + eq + winny (inect) + proviron + Halo and it was one of my all time favorite cycles...

If you are running a low test cycle then I highly recommend proviron to combat any sort of libido issues that could arise.


Hey bodigz, this is actually the exact cycle I will be running in one week from now, except I will be injecting 25 mg prop ed and winny tabs, what were ur results off it, such as fat loss or muscle gain? thanks a bunch bro

[str8balla]

oh yea, bo what was the dosages for the compounds u used, and how long was the cycle, thanks man

[Machola]

This is interesting. The recommended dose of winstol for a 1000lb horse is only 250mg a week. Equipoise is anywhere from 130mg to 500mg a week. Thats for a 1000lb horse! For cattle the highest potency SQ ear implant has 200mg of tren ace in it. I think the cattle only get one at a time. I don't know how often the get implanted.

Maybe you don't need that much for a person.

interesting
keep in mind that the affinity of aas on androgen receptors vary greatly species to species. so for all we know eq could be 2x as strong to a horse mg per mg. from page 25 of anabolics 2006:

aas rabbit muscle rat muscle
proviron .21 .08
testosterone .07 .23
methenolone .09 .24

[lola26]

from my personal experience; when i ran test and eq, towards the end of my cycle i ran low on test c so i only used 200mg per week for the last 4 or 5 weeks of the cycle. i did continue to run the eq at 600mg a week and had no ill effects and great gains. i also ran the test only 1 week more than the eq and recovered fine.

my last cycle was sust 750mg/w and deca 600mg/w. i started the sust 3 weeks ahead of the deca (deca shipped late), after about 4 weeks after i started the deca i felt the effects it had on my system. reduced sperm volume, decreased sex drive, even smaller nuts. anyway, 2 weeks after i stopped the deca while still running sust i was back to normal 100%. point being, i think it depends on the person and depends on the compound. also, i was running deca a bit high.

for my next cycle, i will be running 500mg/w test, 600mg/w eq, 400 deca. i am running eq because i love the gains i achieved from it previously, appetite increase, joint/tendon/ligament healing properties. i am running the deca with it because i really love the joint lubercation (i have BAD tendonitis is both elbows and wrist pain), strength gains, etc. i am running the test at 500mg to avoid any sides and to have a solid base for this cycle. i ran it 750mg last cycle and with that came the sides - acne, gyno, etc.

just my 2 cents...

[bod1ggity]

Hey bodigz, this is actually the exact cycle I will be running in one week from now, except I will be injecting 25 mg prop ed and winny tabs, what were ur results off it, such as fat loss or muscle gain? thanks a bunch bro
I did it for strenth gains mostly...I dropped alot of bodyfat in the process and put on some quality lean muscle... it was more a hardening cycle for me and worked wonderfully.

[str8balla]

I did it for strenth gains mostly...I dropped alot of bodyfat in the process and put on some quality lean muscle... it was more a hardening cycle for me and worked wonderfully.

yea, thats exactly what I'm expecting out of this, what were dosages u used of each compound and the duration of the cycle.

im pretty pumped right now to know some who had tried this lol

[lunny]

I ran tren without test worst 8 weeks of my life...... I guess some people can just handle shit

[bod1ggity]

yea, thats exactly what I'm expecting out of this, what were dosages u used of each compound and the duration of the cycle.

im pretty pumped right now to know some who had tried this lol
EQ 600mg/wk 1-14
Tren enan 600mg/wk 1-14
Winny 50mg/ed wk 12-pct
Proviron 50mg/ed wk 1-pct
Halo 10mg, 20mg, 30mg going up each week for 3 weeks 12, 13 and 14

[lola26]

^ holy shit... thats alot of tren my man... no sides?

[ironfreak83]

^ holy shit... thats alot of tren my man... no sides?

bod suggested to me that the higher end of tren doses are ok, as long as there isn't a huge amount of test involved in the equation. im gonna give it a try in the future, but with tren ace, just incase i don't like the sides. i doubt i'll be using that high of a dose with the tren, but im gonna go a little higher than i did the first go around.

[str8balla]

nice, i'll be runnin it like this

prop 1-4 50mg eod
EQ 1-12 400 mg EW
Winny 1-12 50 md ED
Tren Ace 1-12 50 mg E0D
Prov 5-12 50 mg ED

[bod1ggity]

^ holy shit... thats alot of tren my man... no sides?
I didnt get any sides from the tren aside from night sweats... none of the freaky ass dreams, agression or anything... I honestly believe that it is when it is paired with high doses of test that tren gives off the worst sides.

[mccollumstacy]

I didnt get any sides from the tren aside from night sweats... none of the freaky ass dreams, agression or anything... I honestly believe that it is when it is paired with high doses of test that tren gives off the worst sides.

I am thinking of dropping my test dose in my upcoming cut to 100 eod and upping the tren dose by 200 ew. I will only have enough tren ace to run it at 100 eod - but may start enan @ 200 ew 3 weeks out from my cut and run it with the ace. This should put me at about 500 ew or slightly above.

This will be what the 6 wk cut looks like in this scenario:

Test Prop: 100 eod
Tren Enan: 200 ew
Tren Ace: 100 eod
EQ: 600 ew
T3: Possibly if the sides are min from other compounds

I am leaning towards this after all the comments in this thread. I have always ran test at ridiculously high amounts - thinking that it was warding off alot of the tren sides - You live and learn - and the only way for me to know the impact of a high Anabolic rationed cycle on myself is to run it. I would go back and order my tren ace to run enough of - but I have already got the ace on the way and just can't afford to order again. Comments??