nolvadex vs arimidex

[hurts2pee]

after hours upon hours of internet research i must call out to the members of alinboard to help me with this question. if you run a 10 week cycle of 400mg EQ/wk and 500mg TEST E/wk would it be better to use 10mg NOLVA/ed or .25mg ARIMIDEX/ed. also i have read mixed opinions about pct using CLOMID,NOLVADEX some people say use both and some have said using 20mg of NOLVADEX will work just as good. any replys are appreciated, thanks.

[viperblue]

Nolvadex is an estrogen blocker and arimidex is an anti-estrogen. The nolvadex will simply block certain estrogen receptors in the body such as your nipple area to prevent gyno where the arimidex actually counteracts or eliminates the estrogen in your body. Therefore the arimidex is better than nolvadex beings it will help prevent not only gyno but bloating and other estrogen created side effects. From what I've read clomid is a better choice than nolvadex(if you're only going to use one) for pct as it promotes your body to begin producing testosterone on its on again however I'm going to take both for my pct considering neither is very expensive. I'm fairly new to all of this so if I left something out I'm sure some of the Veterans around here will let us know.

[Beetlejuice]

arimidex also known as anastrozole is an excellent option, much better than nolvadex (which has been show to actually inhibit gains from gear) when used during a cycle. Femara also known as lestrozole is considered widely to be the best altogether for fighting side effects because it's ability to inhibit aromatization is better than arimidex, and it seems to cost less. I would recommend femara over nolvadex. You should also look into proviron it is a nice anti estrogen substance as well.

[bbsweet]

From what I've read clomid is a better choice than nolvadex(if you're only going to use one) for pct as it promotes your body to begin producing testosterone on its on again however I'm going to take both for my pct considering neither is very expensive. I'm fairly new to all of this so if I left something out I'm sure some of the Veterans around here will let us know.[/QUOTE]


Yes that is out school thinking and what you are reading is probably out of date. Clomid is not better than Nolvadex for PCT. They are almost the same anyway.

[bod1ggity]

From what I've read clomid is a better choice than nolvadex(if you're only going to use one) for pct as it promotes your body to begin producing testosterone on its on again however I'm going to take both for my pct considering neither is very expensive. I'm fairly new to all of this so if I left something out I'm sure some of the Veterans around here will let us know.

Clomid is worse than nolvadex, I have read 100's of clinical studies on it, I want to see what bullshit article you read by John No-Body but your very sorely mistaken to say that clomid is even equal to nolvadex, its clinically proven, nolvadex works better, I wouldnt even use clomid in PCT to be honest... its highly unnessecary

[bod1ggity]

arimidex also known as anastrozole is an excellent option, much better than nolvadex (which has been show to actually inhibit gains from gear) when used during a cycle. Femara also known as lestrozole is considered widely to be the best altogether for fighting side effects because it's ability to inhibit aromatization is better than arimidex, and it seems to cost less. I would recommend femara over nolvadex. You should also look into proviron it is a nice anti estrogen substance as well.
Bumping Beetlejuice with a little change in opinion... A-dex is great on cycle, like maybe .25mg eod and it wont fuck up your gains like nolv can... but pct would stick with Nolv, Tribex and possibly HCG 500iu/eod if your on a stronger cycle

[bbsweet]

Clomid is worse than nolvadex, I have read 100's of clinical studies on it, I want to see what bullshit article you read by John No-Body but your very sorely mistaken to say that clomid is even equal to nolvadex, its clinically proven, nolvadex works better, I wouldnt even use clomid in PCT to be honest... its highly unnessecary


You just quoted his quote as mine because I didn't quote it right. I did not say clomid is better than Nolvadex. He did. I said it was the old way of thinking and now most of us agree that Nolvadex is the much better choice.

[bod1ggity]

You just quoted his quote as mine because I didn't quote it right. I did not say clomid is better than Nolvadex. He did. I said it was the old way of thinking and now most of us agree that Nolvadex is the much better choice.
Oh shit, then bumping bbsweet... my bad
:o

[Alin]

after hours upon hours of internet research i must call out to the members of alinboard to help me with this question. if you run a 10 week cycle of 400mg EQ/wk and 500mg TEST E/wk would it be better to use 10mg NOLVA/ed or .25mg ARIMIDEX/ed. also i have read mixed opinions about pct using CLOMID,NOLVADEX some people say use both and some have said using 20mg of NOLVADEX will work just as good. any replys are appreciated, thanks.


I would pick the Arimidex DURING the cycle and use the Nolva for PCT.
I use Nolva / Clomid for PCT 3 WKS for best final results.
Clomid 100mg wk1, 50mg wk2, 50mg wk3
Nolva 40mg wk1, 30mg wk2, 20mg wk3

[Beetlejuice]

I think Nolvadex use should be stopped except pre contest for about 4 days and the article below explains exactly why.





Should Nolvadex be Avoided at All Cost?
by Dharkam

--------------------------------------------------------------------------




Publication Date: January 30, 2006

Nolvadex is the trade name of a drug containing a molecule called Tamoxifen. Its primary use by male bodybuilders is to prevent gynecomastia (the growth of the breast tissue). It was introduced by steroid guru Dan Duchaine 25 years ago. After a quarter of century, it is time for an update about its use. What I am going to demonstrate is it is high time to eliminate Nolvadex from the bodybuilder's drug stacks.

A Little Bit of History

Back in the late 70's, more and more bodybuilders developed strange lumps around their mammary glands. At first, no one really took notice but more and more competitors grew a gynecomastia. In 1981, the M Olympia had a pretty serious gyno. This was shortly after the introduction of this new drug by Dan Duchaine. At the time, it was a pretty good idea as no one else could came up with a solution in order to prevent this growing problem. Nolvadex was popularised by Dan's first Underground Steroid Handbook. Dan even states that "this drug has a lot of potential but hasn't been used enough yet to find it". After more than 25 years of intensive usage, it is my opinion that it is time to forget about Nolvadex. Why? First, because newer and more effective drugs have been developed. Second, because it seems obvious that Nolvadex impairs muscle growth.

Nolvadex and Muscle Growth

After so many years of usage, it seems pretty clear that if Tamoxifen helps prevent the growth of the nipples, it also weakens the anabolic properties of steroids in a majority of bodybuilders. We are frequently said that this weakening effect is due to the anti-estrogenic action of Nolvadex. According to the fantasy, muscles require both testosterone and estrogens to grow at an optimal rate.

This belief is derived from the results of studies showing that without estrogens, testosterone alone possesses minimal anabolic properties. By increasing the density of androgen receptors, estrogens render the muscles much more sensitive to testosterone (1). This has been demonstrated in a very specific muscle called the levator ani. But this muscle does not reflect what happens in the muscles bodybuilders are interested in (2). Estrogens have even been shown to reduce muscle fiber size (3-4). I think this effect of estrogens is closer to what we experience on bodybuilders.

Another popular explanation of the weakening action of Nolvadex is provided by studies which have shown that it reduced the plasma level of IGF-1. I do not think this is a primary explanation.

What Nolvadex Truly Is

Most lifters assume Nolvadex is a pure estrogen antagonist (which would mean it prevents estrogens from acting on their receptors). As far as bodybuilding is concerned, this assumption is very wrong as Nolvadex is both an estrogen receptor agonist and an antagonist. It all depends upon the tissues. Along with the nipples, on which Nolvadex acts mainly as an antagonist, we are also interested by its behaviour on skeletal muscles, on the liver and on the fat cells.

Nolvadex has been shown to behave as estrogens in skeletal muscles (5). This is a very good thing for every athletes except bodybuilders. You see, estrogens protect muscle cells from the training-induced damages (5-6). It means that one can train more without damaging his muscles. Recovery will also be much faster. But for bodybuilders, the training-induced damages are a key ingredient to trigger growth. Nolvadex will therefore reduce the muscle building effects of resistance training.

As for the impact of Tamoxifen on IGF-1, it simply demonstrates another estrogen-like action of Nolvadex. By rendering the liver less sensitive to growth hormone (probably by reducing the liver density of GH receptors), estrogens and tamoxifen diminish the production of IGF-1. This action of estrogens explains why women produce less IGF-1 than men eventhough the have a higher GH level.

Nolvadex and Muscle Definition

Within 24 to 48 hours, Nolvadex is able to greatly increase muscular definition. As a result, bodybuilders assume Nolvadex will help them reduce their bodyfat level. But this rapid cutting action of Nolvadex is due to an anti-estrogenic action on water retention. Estrogens will make you hold water. Nolvadex will produce the opposite effect. But it says nothing about the impact of Tamoxifen on bodyfat. Depending upon your own production of estrogens and your estrogen receptor density on adipocytes, Nolvadex can act as an antagonist (which would help you lose fat) or an agonist. In that case, Nolvadex will make you fatter especially in the lower body area.

Conclusion: if the introduction of Nolvadex 25 years ago was a brilliant idea, times have changed. Very effective anti-aromatase drugs (such as Letrozole or Anastrazole) have been introduced. They will fight gynecomastia, help prevent the anti-anabolic actions of estrogens, fight fat and water retention. They will also boost natural testosterone production far more effectively than Nolvadex. So, it is up to you to decide whether you wish impair your rate of progression with an outdated drug or move on to the 21st century.

[anaholic]

use arimidex or fimara during a cycle that aromitizes
use clomid/hcg for pct
use nolvadex anytime your nipples get sore or puffy
on a long cycle its good to take hcg or clomid in the middle of it too

[bobbyrlg]

Never EVER use HCG for PCT. If you look in the Swale article I posted in General Discussion under the HCG 1500 thread, you will see he recommends Arimidex during cycle and Nolva afterwards, works for me.

[bod1ggity]

Never EVER use HCG for PCT. If you look in the Swale article I posted in General Discussion under the HCG 1500 thread, you will see he recommends Arimidex during cycle and Nolva afterwards, works for me.

Depending on your cycle someitmes you need HCG at the end to get your balls to drop and keep your gains... ive used HCG 2500iu many times PCT, 500iu's eod... I perfer Nolvadex over clomid, it has been proven time and time agin to be more effective than clomid. A-dex is best used on cycle, I perfer to use it eod on a cycle that aromatizes. it keeps away water retention and uneaded estrogen without hendering my gains.

[Beetlejuice]

The problem with Nolvadex is it actually is catabolic, and I don't like the idea of running something that will cheat me of some of my gains. If you want to fight gyno use Femara (lestrozle) it is a hell of a lot better than nolvadex, and can in some cases reverse some gyno. Use it not Nolvadex.

[bobbyrlg]

Depending on your cycle someitmes you need HCG at the end to get your balls to drop and keep your gains... ive used HCG 2500iu many times PCT, 500iu's eod... I perfer Nolvadex over clomid, it has been proven time and time agin to be more effective than clomid. A-dex is best used on cycle, I perfer to use it eod on a cycle that aromatizes. it keeps away water retention and uneaded estrogen without hendering my gains.

That's why you should use HCG throughout the cycle to prevent your balls from shrinking. The test production it induces post cycle can further inhibit recovery. I defniitely agree that you should use nolva over clomid and use adex ed or eod during cycle.