Anabolics vs Androgens

[Alpine2k]

Most people seem to run higher androgens (test) and a lower amount of anabolics (eq, deca, etc) during a cycle. Basically a cycle looks something like this:

500mg/wk Test
400mg/wk EQ

I want to see people opinions/experiences with switching up the dosages, making a cycle something like:

250mg/wk Test
400mg/wk EQ

or maybe

250mg/wk Test
300mg/wk Deca

This has been discussed A LOT on BigA's board promuscle and it seems like there are a decent number of vets who believe in having a larger amount of anabolics and just enough test to cover yourself. Resulting in mostly lean muscle gains, fat LOSS, and little to no bloat. A lot of people report keeping most of their gains and having little to no sides from these type of cycles.

I was wondering what the opinions are of the people over here. I think that it would make sense you would gain less WEIGHT from a higher anabolic cycle but maybe more lean muscle that you end up keeping. Anyone experiement with this before or know people that have and how it worked for them?

[deepblue]

Nice question alpine. Im looking forward to hearing some higher ups comment on this. I will not comment myself.But I am a believer in more is not always better diet sleep eat need to be on par,first and foremost.

[Krom]

I have a good friend that always runs more anabolics than test. I'm not very experienced myself but I was't to happy with my test only cycle. Even with a-dex I still was bloated and shitty looking. After I went off people were telling me I looked a lot better. Live and learn.

[deepblue]

Yah the lady that cuts my hair told me that one time.She said my face seemed thinner.Imagine that.

[Alpine2k]

Nice question alpine. Im looking forward to hearing some higher ups comment on this. I will not comment myself.But I am a believer in more is not always better diet sleep eat need to be on par,first and foremost.

I agree, I definetely believe that more is not always better. I have always thought the test only cycle sounded like a good simple cycle. But at the same time I don't see the point in gaining 25lbs (a lot of water and some fat) just to end up with 12-15lbs 2-3 months after the end of the cycle. Along with possible acne (which I understand could come from an anabolic cycle but not so much as with an androgenic one).

It seems like a higher anabolic cycle would result in much slower gains but almost all of them would be keepable, and you would have a much less chance of getting the sides associated with a higher anabolic cycle (bloat, acne, fat gain).

Here is a link to the thread on PM I was referring to in my original post:
Anabolics Vs. Androgens What's truely needed? (http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14831)

[pjchamp]

i think the reason people run higher androgens over anabolics is b/c your body produces some naturally.

[musclemd]

I would love more opinions on this!

[JMP8888]

I always like to use test as the base of my cycle. Better gains with the higher androgen level and an anabolic drug or two combined with it. Most drugs aside from the pure testosterones are a combo of the two anyway.

[anhuka]

let´s wait for the pros opinion

[deepblue]

Thanks alpine I,ll read that later this evening,after my workout and major chow down.

[The BB Monad]

This is a great question! I would like to hear your opinions also.
I've never run Deca but am thinking of running Organons with Sustenon on next cycle and am wondering about the dose.
What do you think about:
Sustenon 500
Deca 400
Both dosages split 2x week.

[Benner]

This is a great question! I would like to hear your opinions also.
I've never run Deca but am thinking of running Organons with Sustenon on next cycle and am wondering about the dose.
What do you think about:
Sustenon 500
Deca 400
Both dosages split 2x week.

This is a pretty solid cycle. I've run the same in the past, good strength and size gains, not too much water. The deca takes a while to kick in though. Run your test 12-14 weeks with your deca stopping 2 weeks earlier than test. Dont forget PCT:)

[375RANGER]

Most people seem to run higher androgens (test) and a lower amount of anabolics (eq, deca, etc) during a cycle. Basically a cycle looks something like this:

500mg/wk Test
400mg/wk EQ

I want to see people opinions/experiences with switching up the dosages, making a cycle something like:

250mg/wk Test
400mg/wk EQ

or maybe

250mg/wk Test
300mg/wk Deca

This has been discussed A LOT on BigA's board promuscle and it seems like there are a decent number of vets who believe in having a larger amount of anabolics and just enough test to cover yourself. Resulting in mostly lean muscle gains, fat LOSS, and little to no bloat. A lot of people report keeping most of their gains and having little to no sides from these type of cycles.

I was wondering what the opinions are of the people over here. I think that it would make sense you would gain less WEIGHT from a higher anabolic cycle but maybe more lean muscle that you end up keeping. Anyone experiement with this before or know people that have and how it worked for them?

I don't about the eq but my buddy ran 500 test and 500 deca, and got deca dick. took him about a month to get things up and running again.

[Pace9]

This is an interesting question...
EQ and deca are relatively weak as anabolics compared to T+resultant DHT anyway, are they not?

Krom, you said you had regretful experiences with test only cycles?
Test only cycles are my favorite (I have access to free weekly blood tests) and thus continual titration of AI levels.
If you're not susceptible to the androgenic adverse effects, then should one stick to the wonders of test [+relative amounts of DHT and Estrogen]?? As opposed to considering the anabolic options mentioned previously?

[juced_porkchop]

i dont like test. i have run deca alone- no deca dick. iv run deca higher then test- no deca dick. when i run test way to much acne and puffy nips.
i like how i looked on just deca rather then test. but will use test in winter to help a bit with mass. but i can agree u do feel better on test but for me the sex drive it TOOOOO high for me lol. i may go blinde at the end of this cycle.:o and all the acne just dosnt seem worth it at times.

[ironfreak83]

i get more out of deca than test as well. even more strength. i think it just comes down to everyone's body being different, and thus everyone responds to things differently. i will be running a low dose of test with deca and EQ before too long so i'll keep you guys posted on how it works for me.

[No-Go]

I have run your first cycle but with more anabolics

I think the main reason people run more Test is for sexual gratification when on cycle, we all know Deca can seriously supress your HPTA so the test gives some libido

On the other hand a low dose of test and a less suppressive anabolic such as EQ has worked well for me and has many benefits such as tendon strength but each cycle needs to be looked at individually in my opinion.

[IronBod]

I am currently fine tuning my TRT dose, but will be starting a bulk
cycle in Feb. My doses will depend on my final TRT dose. But I
can tell you that the Deca will be run @ twice the dose as the test. :eek:

This wont be the first time either. :D

Heres something to think about. I read a thread years ago, over at S.E.
which a member stated anything more than 800mg wk of anything was
a waste. In other words that was total mg with everything combined.
EX 500mg test and 300mg deca
200mg test 300mg deca 300mg eq

He got, laughed off the board ! I didnt think much about it at the time,
but i think the bro was onto something. IMO

To put your mind at rest, there is current research that shows
150-200mg wk test, is more than enough to counter sexual disfunction
caused from Deca. (fact) And Test at this dose improves your health.
Hearts healthier, improves cardiovascular system, lowers bad cholestrol.
Now you jack it up to 750-1000mg wk and guess what it does ???:confused:

[drob29]

Great thread. Very interesting.

Possibly a mod can chime in with comment?

[drob29]

bumping this thread back up....:D

[High9]

bump! Maybe Big A or another IFBB pro-carder has some comments on this topic, since we're talking about anabolic outcomes, not so much strength outcomes. Hmmm

[JMP8888]

let´s wait for the pros opinion
...You just got it:)

[bod1ggity]

let´s wait for the pros opinion
JMP88888 is a pro... those are HIS legs in his avatar...

[FordTurboDiesel]

JMP88888 is a pro... those are HIS legs in his avatar...

How come so tiny.....?
~looks both ways,,,,,,,, runs, ducks and hides~
:)

Ive done Test only so far. I haven't really been impressed. I want to lump in some Deca or something this time around. I have this funny thing happen when I start a test cycle. My libido is high to begin with....but when I start Test, I spike big time, then I crash and stabilize. It's strange and I can't figure it out. I wonder what running a large number of Deca or EQ would do to me this next time around.....

[IronBod]

How come so tiny.....?
~looks both ways,,,,,,,, runs, ducks and hides~
:)

Ive done Test only so far. I haven't really been impressed. I want to lump in some Deca or something this time around. I have this funny thing happen when I start a test cycle. My libido is high to begin with....but when I start Test, I spike big time, then I crash and stabilize. It's strange and I can't figure it out. I wonder what running a large number of Deca or EQ would do to me this next time around.....

You wont know until you try Ford. Deca is some good stuff my freind. IMO

[tdizzle28]

You wont know until you try Ford. Deca is some good stuff my freind. IMO

Yea, I've heard nothing but good things when bulking and using Deca.

[charbelc1978]

i allway do it that way every one tells you to run more test then any thing

[FordTurboDiesel]

Ill have to try guys. Im starting to think I need to eat a pallet of food a day to keep up with you guys who are gaining 25lbs a cycle....LOL! Then again, I don't retain shit for water.....


Eating is definitely a full time job while doing this. I easily blow 200 a week eating. If a little more.

Next cycle I am definitley on some Deca. Hopefully I won't have Dead Dick. I would like to do an oral too, but I like to drink a little. Beer mainly.....SO....I have been steering clear of orals.

[lord1087]

JMP8888 ur legs is so fuckin big, can you walk with em? :D

[jjgonz]

ill be running test and deca all stealth soon with some bp dbols and proviron....with arimidex on hand just incase of gyno...ill let you know how it goes ford :D

[mccollumstacy]

I am bumping this thread back to life as there is still some interest in the topic. I started another thread last week on the very same thing before I knew this one was lurking about. I personally would like to see some of the mods weigh in on the subject. Bod and Lola have contributed to the other thread but may want to restate their opinions here. I know I have read a half dozen post here and there about tren's sides, and how guys are running low dosed tren / high dosed Test cycles to combat the sides. From my bit of recent research - I have found several of the pro's over at PM along with Bod that have the opinion that Tren and high anabolic compounds can be ran in higher doses as long as the Test dose is kept to min (200-250 wk). Several have commented on the great gains made off no test cycles.

I personally am running STest 450 , Deca 400 , EQ 600 , TBOL 40 ed - but I am experiencing major water gain - I plan on dropping the test dose by half immediately to try and get away from the water and fat gain - along with some simple diet changes. Any more experiences with these cycle types??

[flatblack]

I am bumping this thread back to life as there is still some interest in the topic. I started another thread last week on the very same thing before I knew this one was lurking about. I personally would like to see some of the mods weigh in on the subject. Bod and Lola have contributed to the other thread but may want to restate their opinions here. I know I have read a half dozen post here and there about tren's sides, and how guys are running low dosed tren / high dosed Test cycles to combat the sides. From my bit of recent research - I have found several of the pro's over at PM along with Bod that have the opinion that Tren and high anabolic compounds can be ran in higher doses as long as the Test dose is kept to min (200-250 wk). Several have commented on the great gains made off no test cycles.

I personally am running STest 450 , Deca 400 , EQ 600 , TBOL 40 ed - but I am experiencing major water gain - I plan on dropping the test dose by half immediately to try and get away from the water and fat gain - along with some simple diet changes. Any more experiences with these cycle types??
i like that cycle alot...are u running an a.i. to keep water down or no?...i posted on another thread earlier the real differences between EQ and deca..i'll bump it back up so u can look at it and tell me what u think, just dont feel like retyping it again here..one thing ive been seeing tho is guys wanting to run EQ at below 400mgs, tho deca and EQ may compliment each other theyre very different compounds so i think u still have to use the minimum dose for each to benefit from each of them...300mgs of deca and 400mgs of EQ are the absolute minumum doseages that help produce mass gains imho........

[anhuka]

bump.....

[mccollumstacy]

i like that cycle alot...are u running an a.i. to keep water down or no?...i posted on another thread earlier the real differences between EQ and deca..i'll bump it back up so u can look at it and tell me what u think, just dont feel like retyping it again here..one thing ive been seeing tho is guys wanting to run EQ at below 400mgs, tho deca and EQ may compliment each other theyre very different compounds so i think u still have to use the minimum dose for each to benefit from each of them...300mgs of deca and 400mgs of EQ are the absolute minumum doseages that help produce mass gains imho........

Thanks Flat - Yea I just started a-dex @ .25 on Mon because of major water gain. Also making some diet changes in regards to sodium intake. I didn't think I would need ai for just 450 test wk - I have ran ST @ > 2.5 gram wk in the past without the bloat I have this time around. I'm going lookin for the post you are referring to - Thanks bro

[jjgonz]

dont worry mc just tweak the sodium up the water and cardio and the adex will kick in in a few days and youll dry up...proviron wouldnt hurt either since your bloating like crazy