NEWBIE here. Thinking of starting with orals first..plz help me out..

[NHBtoughguy]

Hi, Ive been building now for about a year, im 5-11/190, about 12% BF. I am just about done with my cutting cycle, but I havent been able to get down as far as i want, i'm looking for about 8% BF. After i get to 8% i will start to bulk up, and i'm thinking about maybe trying winstrol or something? Diet Below...
RIGHT NOW..
2000 calories, 2 protein shakes a day, lots of water.

WHEN BULKING STARTS...
thinking 4000 calaries, will get lots of protein and carbs in.

Training...
4 days a week..back/shoulders - then arms/chest
1 day legs
4 days(right now) cardio / (bulking time will only be 2 days).

If you guys could give me a little advice on what you think i should do, like if its too early to start using, and / or what advice you guys might have on what to use for helping me cut down, then bulk up.. also I must admit the idea of injecting scares me just a little bit, i guess if thats the only way, thats what ill be doing, but just curious if you think i can get good gains on orals alone..

Really really appreciate any and all advice that could be thrown my way here.
Thanks. :)

[jstforme]

after you get to 8% your going to bulk up, why? youve spent all this time to cut down and your not even going to enjoy it? id wait till fall to start bulking. your diet doesnt really tell us a whole lot. when bulking what is a lot of protein and carbs? and when your bulking i wouldnt do any cardio.
with all orals, your really only going to see results while on, once off say goodbye to most if not almost all gains. what are your exact #s for this diet that your on now to lean out?

[NHBtoughguy]

Right now, here is my basic diet..


protein shake/no-explode/ripped(fat loss)/mult vit
train
cardio
bowl of oatmeal
protein shake/mult vit
yogourt/some meat (usually ham)
cottage chease/fruit/meat
small meal
bed..

thats about an average day for me. so you think if i want to see gains after i stop using, i will have to pretty much inject? And, i prolly will wait a little bit to enjoy my lean self, but im looking for like 200 or so at 8% eventually.(long term).

[jstforme]

leave your cardio for at night, not right after your work out when your body needs food. for the most part yeah injections will usually yeild better long term results. i could give you 2 cycles, one oral, one injections, if you took them separate i bet you would never go back to orals alone.

[Kaiser]

and when your bulking i wouldnt do any cardio.

I know this is the old school way of thinking, but I do not agree at all, sorry. I feel you need to keep the engine in tip top shape no matter what time it is, bulking or cutting. If you think about it as a health perspective, you should really keep your blood pressure down while bulking as it naturally goes through the roof. The only way to efficiently do that is through cardio unless you take BP meds.

Keep them safe brother.

[jstforme]

I know this is the old school way of thinking, but I do not agree at all, sorry. I feel you need to keep the engine in tip top shape no matter what time it is, bulking or cutting. If you think about it as a health perspective, you should really keep your blood pressure down while bulking as it naturally goes through the roof. The only way to efficiently do that is through cardio unless you take BP meds.

Keep them safe brother.

i agree with you, and wish i periodically did cardio throught my bulking cycles, just for maintanance. i just didnt want him to be doing too much and burn too many calories

[Kaiser]

i agree with you, and wish i periodically did cardio throught my bulking cycles, just for maintanance. i just didnt want him to be doing too much and burn too many calories


Better to burn the calories brother than to not keep the heart up with what you are doing. What good is body work and a paint job if you have a rod knock ya know? No big deal though he at least gets the point. I just try to keep the new guys safe above all things until they are schooled enough to know when to look out for symptoms of bad situations themselves. No harm done bro.

[NHBtoughguy]

Yea, i think i will be cutting my cardio to say 1 or 2 at most cardio during bulking.. and the cardio that i do will be at night at that point. And thats a good idea to wait on my cardio for the end of the night, ill start doing that.

Yea, i do think that injects will definately make a big difference after i stop, but how much really would i see doing just orals? You would definatly think i would see SOMETHING right? or do you think its just while im on the cycle, then 100% it all goes off after i stop? This is going to be sorta a longer term deal, like in 3 years i wanna be 200 @ 8%.. not NEEDING any HUGE changes over the first bulking period.
Again, thanks very everyones help and support, really really glad i was able to talk to you guys a little before really making up my mind.

[jstforme]

well the deciding factor is going to be what oral you choose. of course youll see something off of orals. alot of retaining gains will be up to your diet, as it is with injections. i just think that if you go the oral route and get good results then every other cycle your going to do is probably going to be orals, which can cause your body a lot more damage than injections.

[Milky87]

If you are going for an oral-only cycle, give turinabol a whirl. 50mg ED for 6 weeks seems to generate about 10lbs if your diet is right